Are mumsneters TERFs

[ChedderGorgeous]

I started a thread on the new taskmaster line up here. This greatly angered a taskmaster fb group who screenshot the conversation and agreed all mumsnetters were TERFs. AIBU to suggest this isn't the general perception of others when you have mentioned mumsnet ? Ps. I still haven't heard of John Robins !

@Begsthequestion and @NoMoreFalafelsForYou what is transphobia, is it women believing that transwomen are male and should stay out of single sex spaces?

Or is it hating/ irrationally fearing trans people? (which is the logical meaning of a phobia)

There are plenty of women who feel believe the first, I don't think I've ever seen any one on any mumsnet thread state the second. If they did they would be deleted and likely banned.

The question has been asked a few times and you’ve manage to post plenty in the meantime including the name calling. If you know the answer then share and out all this awful ‘transphobia’ to rest. But I suspect the answer is ‘if someone says they’re a woman then they are’, which of course brings up back to personal beliefs rather than anything that can be substantiated.

It’s a bit like when someone says ‘there is a god and you should believe if you don’t want to go to hell’. And when you say, ‘sure just show me the evidence’ and they reply ‘well I’ve had very real experiences that makes me believe’. Ok good for you, but that’s not going to make me a believer just because it’s happening in your mind.

I'm not trying to change your mind on anything. Why do you think I am? I'm trying to avoid you.

Some quotes from this thread, which I expect many posters do not believe are transphobic.

“men in women’s spaces” when the “men” refers to transgender women

“mentally ill males claiming they are female”

“I want to see the GRA repealed”

“I'd go as far as to rescind all GRCs”

“I will not and should not have to use a persons chosen pronouns”

Personally I do believe in women-only spaces. I just also think that trans women are (a type of) women, so I'm happy to include them. I say this as a domestic abuse survivor. If your problem is with men pretending to be trans in order to abuse women, then that's a different thing.

I'm also confused as to why GC people would be so keen to include trans men in female spaces. This would be the logical consequence of excluding trans women, surely.

I accept that most GC Mumsnet posters do not actively seek to exclude trans people from public life, but the fact is that threads that discuss any efforts to make trans people feel included are inevitably met with responses ranging from disdain to outright hostility.

The question has been asked a few times and you’ve manage to post plenty in the meantime including the name calling. If you know the answer then share and out all this awful ‘transphobia’ to rest

Why should that poster do so?
Got the right attitude not wanting to get involved.
You just get pathetic gaslighting attempts if you do engage.
You know when just not to bother. Not a case of "can't" answer. Just won't.
Fair play to them.

Personally I do believe in women-only spaces. I just also think that trans women are (a type of) women, so I'm happy to include them. I say this as a domestic abuse survivor. If your problem is with men pretending to be trans in order to abuse women, then that's a different thing.

@TippiHedrin how does one tell the difference?

Just pointing out here that if you edit your post we can still see what you originally posted

The top is supposed to be quoted.

I'm also confused as to why GC people would be so keen to include trans men in female spaces. This would be the logical consequence of excluding trans women, surely.

Because they are women.

Why is making male people feel included a priority for the few situations where women need single sex spaces? More of a priority than the needs of some/many of those women?

How can a transwoman be a type of woman? They are male, they are non gender conforming males?

No woman has the right to give away single sex spaces to a subset of males, even if they 'identify' (whatever the fuck that means) as women.

How bizarre that MN are deleting any post on here that doesn't align with their preferred image of the site but is totally in keeping with their talk rules....oh and allowing all the transphobic posts to remain in spite of their rules 🤔

I'm also confused as to why GC people would be so keen to include trans men in female spaces. This would be the logical consequence of excluding trans women, surely.

Any female is entitled to be in women only spaces, because they are female.

Its not complicated.

Observations of reality aren't transphobic. They just don't align with gender identity.

Which posts on this thread are transphobic?

Well surely if you believe I and the majority of women on MN are transphobic - an absolutely awful thing to be - it is your duty as a trans rights fighter to stop such awful train of thought and explain to us exactly why we are wrong? Surely that is the only way to move forward in any situation where you see great prejudice, educate and let us see the great errors of our way? I mean as a parent of an autistic child for example, if someone said they don’t vaccinate because it causes ASD, I’d absolutely be straight in there disproving that. I have been on many threads recently debating the benefits system because so many people are still of the mindset that it’s an easy ride for the work shy. When you see people being brought down with misinformation surely if you have the absolute facts (not belief but fact) to back you up, it’s very easy to explain your side?

Thank you for coming back.

I do not believe that trans men are women, so by that definition, yes I am transphobic.

I am not a regular on the Feminism Board, despite me posting lots on here thanks to it being my day off, so I would have to read more about the GRA and GRC first.

@TippiHedrin
Some quotes from this thread, which I expect many posters do not believe are transphobic
Yeah, doesn't matter how many examples you give, it'll never be enough..

I'm also confused as to why GC people would be so keen to include trans men in female spaces. This would be the logical consequence of excluding trans women, surely.

Because they don't see them as trans men.
They see them as women, and confused, lost, victims of a "trans contagion" so that's why they're usually fine with trans men in female spaces.
They can always tell, after all who is female.

Gah, I meant to say I do not believe that transwomen are women!

Personally I do believe in women-only spaces. I just also think that trans women are (a type of) women, so I'm happy to include them.

And you do understand that women have the right to consent? You don't get to consent on behalf of other women.

I doubt we agree on much about this topic, Wes, but seriously I think this is a more useful and productive line of debate than many on here. We're getting somewhere if this is really more about people pretending to be trans.

Let's engage the experts and try and work out an inclusive and supportive policy!

I mean, I don't think all ramps should be removed from public buildings in case someone uses a shopping trolley to do a burglary.

Just pointing out here that if you edit your post we can still see what you originally posted

I know, I finished my post and then added a bit more on top after I pressed send 😁
Must have decided I hadn't quite finished

I would consider myself GC but others would consider me a raging terf. I've lost a few friends over it but haven't lost any sleep over that 🤷‍♀️

@TippiHedrin

Let's engage the experts and try and work out an inclusive and supportive policy!

Any policy which gives males who identify as women the right to enter women's single sex spaces excludes some women.

Who are more important to you, the males who want to be in the spaces or the women who are displaced?

You could argue with a brick wall couldn't you.

Enjoy.