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Original poster

“The problem with children these days is that they need a bloody good hiding”

255 replies

TheHeadOfTheHouse · 17/01/2024 13:55

Said by a relative in his 70s.

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

We have Autism and ADHD in our wider family. Older relatives don’t seem to be very tolerant of this and keep implying that the cause of this is too soft parenting.

A relative was having a debate with me the other day saying how parenting was much better in his day, police could hit you, teachers used to cane you etc and how there wasn’t the behaviour that we have these days.

He was very defensive when I told him that I’m very glad all that has been abolished.

“Yeah, but we didn’t have teenagers stabbing each other back then”

Hes one of a few people I’ve come across lately who is all for hitting children.

It seems to be were Autism and ADHD children are concerned that it seems to provoke people saying this

OP posts:
Whatafustercluck · 18/01/2024 08:47

Bootair · 18/01/2024 08:37

Why on earth would I be suggesting that there is no place for positive guidance and teaching, as well as disciplining bad behaviour?
I'm not saying that you shouldn't teach your children positively why they SHOULD do certain things or have certain attitudes. That's just obvious. I'm just saying that we need to maintain the basic principle of submitting to authorities, whilst also learning about the rare instances in which we should make exceptions for the sake of morality and safety. We needn't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Show quote history

We teach our children to follow the rules and if they don't believe they're right, work with others to get them changed. That's the fundamental principle of democracy. There have most definitely been occasions where teachers have been wrong at ds's school. We've taught him to politely and respectfully put across his point of view, but accept the outcome may not be the one he wants. Because that is a life skill. If nobody ever challenges authority, nothing will ever change for the better. Look at the Post Office situation for proof of that.

user1492757084 · 18/01/2024 09:04

They are really just expressing their annoyance with some of the behaviours I think, not really wishing to hit the kids.
Children are noisier and naughtier and more rude I notice, though I don't promote hitting I do feel sorry for their parents and wish they'd find successful discipline measures.

I read yesterday that some things, it has been found, do adversely affect many people with ADHD or make their - symptoms worse.

  • screen time and blue light
  • high carb intake
  • caffeine
  • going to bed late
  • phones and addictive games - they steal dopamine
  • getting into arguments or fights because they can get a dopamine hit (start a cycle) and also ruminate on fight.
  • being sedentary - where as exercise is positive
  • taking other suffers medication could have bad effect
  • alcohoism

Modern life does involve interacting with these things more so perhaps that is why more ADHA is being noticed and getting worse.
It would be worthwhile limiting these triggers when managing
ADHD so says Dr Daniel Amen. Old people might not notice the behaviour of ADHD kids so much nor think smacking is the answer.

tralalalalalalalal · 18/01/2024 09:18

Notanotherbloodynamechange1 · 17/01/2024 14:42

I have never and will never hit my DC. But I do agree that for SOME children ruling with fear seems to be the only way. Permissive parenting is rife, lazy bone idle parents who can’t get their own lives in order never mind a child’s. A child only has to turn their nose up at a food one time and “they’ve got sensory issues”. Parents who’s kids can do no wrong.

I 100% agree that all these problems were not around in your relatives day and it does beg the question, why now?

Oh shutup, no parent is saying that after they refuse food once. Why bother with hyperbole in a debate, it makes you look ridiculous

SevenMoon · 18/01/2024 09:19

Testina · 18/01/2024 08:36

Not that OP is coming back to this 🙄 but…

Corporal punishment in schools was abolished by the Education Act (1986).

That doesn’t happen overnight - there’s a few years of legislative process, and before that the social sea change that prompts it.

So the people in their 20s in 1975 are now in their 70s. And that’s generously assuming that change came from the youngest adult generation.

So OP, it wasn’t you that protected children in schools - it’s the age group you’re sweepingly denigrating.

Not all schools, if you were wealthy enough you could still pay a private school to beat your child until 1998.

Snugglemonkey · 18/01/2024 09:20

CatSighs · 18/01/2024 01:06

@Snugglemonkey sorry you had such a rough time growing up.

I didn't mean to suggest that no kids in the 1980s had these problems, but that there didn't seem to be so many. I work in a large school where the uniform is a short-sleeved blouse and I see the scars. I can see that there's a much higher % of girls with SH scars now than when I was at school, when it was very rare to see evidence of SH (although I probably wouldn't have been aware of less visible problems like depression, anxiety)

Somebody upthread said that these troubled kids would have been in Borstal etc - yes, I remember Borstal and special schools, but I didn't know anyone who went to one. All my neighbours, my parents' friends, my relatives - their kids went to local mainstream schools, and seemed to get on ok (even the "weird" ones). Now, I would say that about 20- 25% of the families that I know have a child who is EOTAS/EBSA/EHCP/reduced timetable and has severe mental health problems.

It seems that, with all the knowledge we have about ASD etc and the fact that far more children are diagnosed early, should result in better outcomes for these children. But that doesn't appear to be the case. Why isn't early diagnosis and greater awareness leading to better outcomes? Is there something going on that is making things worse for these kids? What can it be?

I think a lot of people who "seemed to get on ok" did not. Hence the mental health crises. Lots of adults carry the wounds of being unsupported.

I do think that self harming is a bit more acceptable now. It is not as necessary to hide it. Noone ever saw cuts on me as I was careful. Even the burns, which were visible and have scarred by hands and arms, were explained as "accidents" while cooking. I pulled out hair and picked my head to bleeding, as it was less visible. Used pins to make tiny marks. All sorts of things to keep it secret. I onewcit was not normal and was terrified I would end up in a mental hospital.

I just do not think you can tell whether people are OK or not. Several girls in my class also struggled with bulimia. Who knows who many also self harmed.

Several younger cousins had early diagnosis of asd and were supported. They are young adults at uni, or in professional careers. They have not had the mental health problems I did. My 20's were a total mess. I am grand now, but I wish that I had received the support they did as it would have saved me so much trauma.

Artemi · 18/01/2024 09:23

CatSighs · 17/01/2024 16:25

I have sometimes wondered something similar myself...I have an autistic DD and we have lots of the related challenges such as school refusal, can't eat with the family because of the noise, too anxious to attend after school clubs etc. We are sympathetic and try to accommodate this to an extent, but sometimes it seems to make things worse...

If the explosion in numbers of children with ASD now is due to better awareness and diagnosis, then presumably there must have been similar numbers of children with what would now be called ASD 40ish years ago. Certainly, Mumsnet seems to be full of middle-aged women who have recently been diagnosed with ASD/ADHD. However, I don't remember kids being on reduced timetables, or children suffering from anxiety, depression, self-harm, gender identity issues (all of which are particularly common in children with ASD). It's not that I don't think many children in the 1980s were neurodivergent (there were lots of kids who were unkindly thought of as weird or odd), but they generally seemed to be able to cope with life in a way that many children (my own DD included) can't now, and I wonder why that is. Could it be something to do with how we raise children now? Is it screentime? Discipline? Perhaps it's connected to more households where both parents work outside of the home? Something about the style of teaching nowadays? These suggestions are just idle musings and I'm not intending to offend anybody, but there has been an enormous change in both how many children are diagnosed with ASD etc and how badly it seems to affect them, and I think it's worth considering why this might be.

As I say, I am the parent of a DC with ASD and I just want to do the best for her...but am sometimes unsure what that looks like.

I know what you mean... I was diagnosed ASD and ADHD as an adult but I coped reasonably well as a child (despite being "weird")

For me I think it's a variety of factors, some positive and some negative

-School being more structured, having clearer expectations. I was lucky to go to schools that focused on academics (I thrived) but were kind. When I didn't have any friends I had "counselling" from the french teacher (I doubt she had any formal training!) about how to find things in common with people. Less classroom disruption.

-a HUGE amount of behind the scenes support from my mum (SAHM) who would help me organise my bag, check what homework i needed to do and i would literally do my homework sat next to her while she cooked even as an 18 year old. She also believed in absolutely masses of exercise, before and after school. My brother also has diagnosed ADHD and she now jokes about how she thought all children were feral creatures but maybe it was just her two.

  • more expectation to behave "properly". My dad was a cruel bully so I don't advocate beating children as he did, but my mum was kinder and emphasized "say hello to the lady" "look people in the eyes when you shake hands", importance of not being rude. I wouldn't be allowed to go to places eg church if they didn't think I could manage the minimum politeness, there wasn't an allowance made for weird kids
  • personally I definitely noticed a huge worsening as an adult when I got a smartphone, horrible things reduce everyone's attention span
Waspie · 18/01/2024 09:24

It's not because of his age. It's because he's a shitbag. My parent's are in their late seventies and early eighties and don't think this.

More fucking ageism dressed up as concern. The "over 60's" FFS.

YouJustDoYou · 18/01/2024 09:24

Some kids absolutely do deserve a bloody good hiding, permissive parenting has ruined many children these days. Some of the kids in my children's school are pure evil little shits.

Snugglemonkey · 18/01/2024 09:29

YouJustDoYou · 18/01/2024 09:24

Some kids absolutely do deserve a bloody good hiding, permissive parenting has ruined many children these days. Some of the kids in my children's school are pure evil little shits.

Wow. Nobody deserves to be abused. Ever.

NonPlayerCharacter · 18/01/2024 09:30

YouJustDoYou · 18/01/2024 09:24

Some kids absolutely do deserve a bloody good hiding, permissive parenting has ruined many children these days. Some of the kids in my children's school are pure evil little shits.

Well I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm totally convinced now. Such nuance. Such insight. Such profundity.

ETA: Oh hang on...just checked the username. Mm hm.

edissa · 18/01/2024 09:33

anicecuppateaa · 17/01/2024 20:39

My very sweet 85 year old nana asked if I give my 1 year old a ‘good old spanking’ at Christmas. I explained that we prefer gentle parenting and I still remember being smacked as a child. She proceeded to recommend I start smacking my 1 and 3 year olds.

This is frankly disturbing.

edissa · 18/01/2024 09:34

YouJustDoYou · 18/01/2024 09:24

Some kids absolutely do deserve a bloody good hiding, permissive parenting has ruined many children these days. Some of the kids in my children's school are pure evil little shits.

This is also disturbing.

Rocknrollstar · 18/01/2024 09:36

I don’t believe in hitting children but I do think modern parenting Is too permissive. DD summed it by saying that my generation got on with our lives and expected the children to ‘come along with us’ whereas modern parenting is centred on the children and what they want. We had firm boundaries and our children knew how to behave and what was allowed. They weren’t unhappy and could be taken anywhere. We brought them up to be independent too so all the children in our circle were used to play dates from an early age (without mum) and would do sleepovers.

Nanny0gg · 18/01/2024 09:38

Anisette · 17/01/2024 16:14

You believe that an entire generation thinks this way? That's incredibly discriminatory of you.

Sadly MN don't agree, going by their response to my reporting of this thread.

ginasevern · 18/01/2024 09:39

gonetogreece · 17/01/2024 14:18

This 100% ^^
I watched a documentary from the (I think 60s) called juvenile on YouTube. Kids being dragged up by damaged parents who were probably dragged up themselves. An upsetting look back in time.

Show quote history

@Rangelife

None of these issues have gone away. They are still very much alive and well.

@gonetogreece

I don't know where you live or who you mix with but I live in what would be considered an under funded area consisting mostly of council flats. You really don't have to go back to the 60's to see kids being dragged up, hit by their parents and called little cunts on a regular basis and that's just in our local supermarket. Dad (if there is one) usually has a spliff in his hand and mum is dressed in her none too clean pyjamas all day.

Alicesmagicmushroom · 18/01/2024 09:39

I agree with some of what you’re relative says BUT…

If I hit my DC they would be traumatised in the same way a victim of a random street assault would be, as that’s what hitting a child is plain abuse.

Underhisi · 18/01/2024 09:45

I think to some extent children appearing noisier and naughtier is because they now spend more time around adults and in adult places. Playing out without adults and away from adults isn't a thing.

NonPlayerCharacter · 18/01/2024 09:45

Alicesmagicmushroom · 18/01/2024 09:39

I agree with some of what you’re relative says BUT…

If I hit my DC they would be traumatised in the same way a victim of a random street assault would be, as that’s what hitting a child is plain abuse.

Edited

Worse, I think, because you're supposed to be their caregiver and life example. Pain and humiliation are not acceptable methods of communication.

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 18/01/2024 09:48

YouJustDoYou · 18/01/2024 09:24

Some kids absolutely do deserve a bloody good hiding, permissive parenting has ruined many children these days. Some of the kids in my children's school are pure evil little shits.

Do you ever stop to wonder why those children are ‘pure evil little shits’? It’s because their parents are pure evil big shits! Quite often, those parents do use severe and abusive punishments for their children but all it does is create children who see violence and cruelty as normal. Like you do evidently so it seems you’re not that different from them.

Are there children in my DD’s school who are badly behaved? Yes. Do I think abusing them is the way to rectify that? No because no child ever deserves that.

TempleOfBloom · 18/01/2024 09:53

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

This would be the very generation that worked in parliament to abolish corporal punishment in schools and the make laws about hitting children at home?

So sick of stupid ageist generalisation

OMGitsnotgood · 18/01/2024 09:53

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

How statistically sound is your research (there are 15.5 million over 60s in the uk? )

Whilst corporate punishment was acceptable when I was at school (cane/slipper),'and many parents did slap children, I can honestly say I knew no one who was ' beaten to a pulp'.

I saw two mothers hitting toddlers in our local shopping centre at the weekend - even more shocking as smacking js no longer considered acceptable - so are you going to apply the same generalised judgment on that generation?

I think it's a topic worthy of discussion but what a ridiculous statement you make.

edissa · 18/01/2024 09:55

Do you ever stop to wonder why those children are ‘pure evil little shits’? It’s because their parents are pure evil big shits!

👆🏻 this!

PurpleBrain · 18/01/2024 09:56

@Jollyoldfruit

No because of cameras everywhere . Back then people got away with violence because no cameras , no one reported like they do now and the police brushed a lot of shit under the carpet, especially if you were middle class . It was also seen as some how acceptable to hit kids , when you think corporal punishment was still in schools.

NonPlayerCharacter · 18/01/2024 09:58

It's very common, when children are responding to adults fucking things up one way or another, for the adults to decide the children are the problem, and give it some variation of "the child is faulty and not working properly". Could be deciding the child is insane, mentally ill (but not situationally), evil, a little shit, whatever, but the point is that everything is fine and it's the child that's broken.

Mariposistaaa · 18/01/2024 10:15

Caning, hitting and corporal punishment are neither acceptable nor necessary. But I agree with your relative that far too many parents want to be mates with their kids rather than an authority figure. Behaviour nowadays is often appalling - just go into your average school, supermarket, cafe - kids charging about screaming and parents meekly saying 'oh dooooooon't do that' or letting them use screens. Teachers are afraid to discipline as the parents will side with their rude offspring. And they get far too much choice.
Now there are some very good parents out there too. Shame so many let the side down.