“The problem with children these days is that they need a bloody good hiding”

[TheHeadOfTheHouse]

Said by a relative in his 70s.

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

We have Autism and ADHD in our wider family. Older relatives don’t seem to be very tolerant of this and keep implying that the cause of this is too soft parenting.

A relative was having a debate with me the other day saying how parenting was much better in his day, police could hit you, teachers used to cane you etc and how there wasn’t the behaviour that we have these days.

He was very defensive when I told him that I’m very glad all that has been abolished.

“Yeah, but we didn’t have teenagers stabbing each other back then”

Hes one of a few people I’ve come across lately who is all for hitting children.

It seems to be were Autism and ADHD children are concerned that it seems to provoke people saying this

I would ask who challenged the status quo so that it is no longer tolerated and is now banned in some places? Clearly it would be older people. Many Victorian's were against it so it's not new.

And every single generation complains about the behaviour of young people. It's a tale as old as time.

I’m against smacking & wouldn’t smack my child.

However, all the people I know that got a smack if they were naughty as a kid (including myself, twice) are actually the most respectful & happy people I know.

I also don’t think all the super soft parenting really works ime. Too many disrespectful & arrogant young adults around.

Ageism is very insulting.
The OP knows her relative thinks the way he does, but it doesn't mean over 60s in general do.

Ive worked with so many kids - Guides, summer camps in various forms. In 25 years I've met ONE kid who I thought needed a good hiding. I've no doubt she'll get it one day.

But in the case of abuse, the problem isn't the fact that the parent has authority, it's that they're abusing their authority. It's like having a manager. The job role itself isn't a problem, only when it lands in the wrong hands. That doesn't mean we should seek to abolish the role of manager entirely.
That's why safeguarding exists - so we can identify the smaller number of cases where parents are abusing their position, rather than just abolishing the parent-child authority dynamic altogether.
People love to say authority and hierarchy is inherently evil, until they actually experience an anarchic setting where no one knows their place.

Not giving your child clear boundaries, consequences and teaching them how to function in their various roles in society is also neglectful, lazy parenting that sets a child up for a lifetime of mental health problems and dysfunction. If a child isn't taught to believe, on a very basic level, that they shouldn't do what their parents say, then why should they do what a teacher or police officer says?

I'm over 60 and was never hit as a child nor did I ever hit mine. I think it was my grandparents generation who were more like that.

All those people who were beaten to a pulp but survived to recommend such treatment as ideal discipline.
Ageism and hyperbole.
I'm sorry you have rather aggressive relatives and that you lack support from them regarding the ADHD and autism.

I was smacked as a child, I'm 54 now, but I wasn't "beaten to a pulp" or "battered"! Those are just ridiculous glib statements from people who think a " tap" is bordering on being beaten to a pulp! And it taught me right from wrong. My mum would only smack me if I had done something seriously bad and considering I was quite well behaved usually, that wasn't very often at all. But it was deserved when it happened. I see children these days running riot, no respect, no moral standards, doing exactly what they like and I totally despair of modern day, wishy washy parenting. Children need boundaries. And I can categorically state, I grew up to be a respectful, well mannered, well rounded happy woman. My mum and I were very close and I approved of how she raised me. I see nothing wrong with that at all. The PC brigade have put paid to any semblance of decent parenting.

And I can categorically state, I grew up to be a respectful, well mannered, well rounded happy woman.

Not that well rounded. You think hitting children is OK.

Violence and stabbings are rarely done by children of parents who brought them up with tolerance and rewards charts.

It's the kids that were smacked, or beaten and locked in cupboards by their parents who then use violence against others.

My step mum said she got smacked as a child and it never harmed her, I replied well it did because it's made you think violence against children is ok.

Lots of kids in the 80's were not coping. I had an eating disorder that noobe paid attention to. I cut myself. Burned myself. Pulled out my hair. I have ASD. I was not coping with it. But then it was just my fault for not being NT.

@Snugglemonkey sorry you had such a rough time growing up.

I didn't mean to suggest that no kids in the 1980s had these problems, but that there didn't seem to be so many. I work in a large school where the uniform is a short-sleeved blouse and I see the scars. I can see that there's a much higher % of girls with SH scars now than when I was at school, when it was very rare to see evidence of SH (although I probably wouldn't have been aware of less visible problems like depression, anxiety)

Somebody upthread said that these troubled kids would have been in Borstal etc - yes, I remember Borstal and special schools, but I didn't know anyone who went to one. All my neighbours, my parents' friends, my relatives - their kids went to local mainstream schools, and seemed to get on ok (even the "weird" ones). Now, I would say that about 20- 25% of the families that I know have a child who is EOTAS/EBSA/EHCP/reduced timetable and has severe mental health problems.

It seems that, with all the knowledge we have about ASD etc and the fact that far more children are diagnosed early, should result in better outcomes for these children. But that doesn't appear to be the case. Why isn't early diagnosis and greater awareness leading to better outcomes? Is there something going on that is making things worse for these kids? What can it be?

I'm 60 and my mother 90 and this was never something we thought! I don't think she ever smacked me, let alone anything worse.

We had some of this from MIL 20 years ago who is now 78 (DS is 19). He was a highly spirited toddler. It was bollocks then and remains bollocks now. As a society we have moved away from condoning casual violence and thank god for that.

Sorry should have said DS is a lovely young even if he drives me mad sometimes who no longer hits and bites random people he meets, all without us enacting casual violence upon him.

I am 67 and think this is an appalling thing to say. Just because your relative, in his 70s, has this disgusting opinion, doesn't give you the right to be so ageist and nasty about everyone over 60.

“We have Autism and ADHD in our wider family. Older relatives don’t seem to be very tolerant of this and keep implying that the cause of this is too soft parenting.”

Maybe those older relatives themselves have Autism and struggle with changing their way of thinking? Autism does run in families so it's possible that these older relatives also all have it.

Something has gone wrong with parenting. Teachers are leaving the profession because of badly behaved children and idiot parents and there seem to be a lot of out of control children out there doing whatever they like.
Hitting children is not the answer, of course, but soft parenting isn’t working out very well for society.
There must be an inbetween, surely?

Because you can teach your child to do the right thing because it is morally/ethically/socially the right thing to do, rather than because someone with authority has told them to do it. For example, DS helped to calm down an upset child at school, not because someone told him to, but because he knew it was the right thing to do and would like someone to treat him like that in similar circumstances. He helps at home because he knows it lightens the load for those he loves, and that as a family, we are a team, not because I’ve told him he has to. I have a strong belief that certain types of people are drawn to certain jobs because they like the idea of having authority and power over others (look at the current issues in the Met Police for example) and these are the people we absolutely shouldn’t be following.

I live on the flip side of this PP where I was brought up to obey all authority and it has cost me no end of problems, even to the point that I was too anxious to ask for a second opinion from a different doctor as I viewed the first one as having authority and being right.

"The problem with difficult old people these days is, they need a punch in the chest" If he doesn't like the idea of being beaten up by a younger, stronger person, maybe he'll understand why it doesn't work for children either.

They shouldn't slavishly do what a teacher or police officer says just because they are in authority. They should only do what someone else says if it is fundamentally good advice. Our job as parents is to teach critical thinking and confidence in their own judgement.

Does nobody have any idea about timelines any more?

My mum is 89 and never hit us and told us why. My granny would be 123 and never hit us. Corporal punishment was stopped in English schools in the early 80s, the reason being that it didn't do any good even when carefully restricted, and was easily translated into harmful abuse.

Positive parenting is much harder work than hitting children and has nothing to do with laziness. Luckily it's also more rewarding and doesn't abuse kids. Ruling by fear? Who needs that?

Re ASD I suspect it has more to do with the survival rate of premature babies than parenting.

The survival rate of infants born alive between 24 and 28 weeks of gestation has increased significantly from about 9% in 1966-1970 to 19.5% in 1971-1974 and 50.3% in 1977-1982.

Of those born in 1977-1982 at two years of age 13% had severe handicaps, 59% were considered normal and in 24% some handicap was suspected. The serious handicap rate was 28% for children born at 24-26 weeks compared with 8.5% for those born at 27-28 weeks of gestation.

Now the survival rates are :-

• 24 weeks is around 60%
• 27 weeks is around 89%
• 31 weeks is around 95%
• 34 weeks is equivalent to a baby born at full term.

So if those children are more likely to have developmental disorders and be NT it’s not difficult to see why there are more of those disorders/conditions now.

I don’t propose to gather stats but there’s also much better outcomes for pregnancy and getting pregnant in the first place.

Again, there’s also less infant/child mortality. Many children with neurological disorders would have died from epileptic fits etc.

In 1970 it was 22 deaths of under 5’s per 1000 now it’s 4.

Its medicine I believe, not parenting.

I don't believe I actually stated that anywhere in my post? I was simply relaying my own experience. But you go on, just assume what my views are! 🙄

These problems are very prominent in society now..just add on drug abuse.

I am from the time when I got a good belting from my df..I hated him and I still do .

We had more respect for teachers . people in authority and older relatives.
I've no answer to your post OP...but it's made me think how things were then..violence wasn't the answer.