Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

“The problem with children these days is that they need a bloody good hiding”

255 replies

TheHeadOfTheHouse · 17/01/2024 13:55

Said by a relative in his 70s.

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

We have Autism and ADHD in our wider family. Older relatives don’t seem to be very tolerant of this and keep implying that the cause of this is too soft parenting.

A relative was having a debate with me the other day saying how parenting was much better in his day, police could hit you, teachers used to cane you etc and how there wasn’t the behaviour that we have these days.

He was very defensive when I told him that I’m very glad all that has been abolished.

“Yeah, but we didn’t have teenagers stabbing each other back then”

Hes one of a few people I’ve come across lately who is all for hitting children.

It seems to be were Autism and ADHD children are concerned that it seems to provoke people saying this

OP posts:
Notanotherbloodynamechange1 · 17/01/2024 14:45

also For the record, I was smacked and am strongly against it. I am the first person in my family who DOES NOT smack, every single other parent does.

it’s seen as light punishment by the likes of my grandmother who grew up in the Caribbean and her punishment would be whips, leaches on her tongue for lying, or made to kneel on a red hot steam grate for hours for sneaking out the house.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 17/01/2024 14:45

Nice bit of ageism OP. Everyone over 60?

Mirrorinthebathroom123 · 17/01/2024 14:47

Supersimkin2 · 17/01/2024 14:32

Boundaries is the new word for discipline. Teachers complain like mad about lazy parents who don’t set clear boundaries, and sadly they’ve got a point.

That’s because discipline is synonymous with punishment.

Setting boundaries and keeping them doesn’t need to involve punishment. Nor does it need to rely on creating fear (of physical or psychological pain).

ManateeFair · 17/01/2024 14:48

Plenty of people hold this view (and they are always completely wrong when they claim there was no violence/vandalism/whatever in previous generations). It's not necessarily an age-related opinion. It is, however, total bollocks and it's just plain weird that people think the solution to a child's behaviour is clouting them.

I don't think it's aimed specifically at kids with ASD or ADHD though. You just perceive that way because you happen to have kids in your family whose behaviour is ASD/ADHD linked, but I guarantee you people say it about any kid who appears to playing up a bit, whatever the reason.

I always find it ironic when people say things like 'Kids need a good hiding when they misbehave, it never did me any harm'. I just think 'Except it clearly HAS done you some harm, because you grew up into a mad twat obsessed with beating kids'.

Missingmyusername · 17/01/2024 14:50

Notanotherbloodynamechange1 · 17/01/2024 14:42

I have never and will never hit my DC. But I do agree that for SOME children ruling with fear seems to be the only way. Permissive parenting is rife, lazy bone idle parents who can’t get their own lives in order never mind a child’s. A child only has to turn their nose up at a food one time and “they’ve got sensory issues”. Parents who’s kids can do no wrong.

I 100% agree that all these problems were not around in your relatives day and it does beg the question, why now?

I sort of agree with this. ^

A good hiding is just a turn of phrase isn’t it? I do feel there’s a lot of gentle parenting pandering going on.

The old “but they have nothing to do” sod off. They have more than ever!

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 17/01/2024 14:53

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up

Can we stop right now with the ageism @TheHeadOfTheHouse . I'm this age group, and you certainly don't speak for me.

Your relative is an arse. It's not cos of his age. Hth.

JudgeJ · 17/01/2024 14:53

Supersimkin2 · 17/01/2024 14:32

Boundaries is the new word for discipline. Teachers complain like mad about lazy parents who don’t set clear boundaries, and sadly they’ve got a point.

Always remember, Discipline is what other people's children need. Not only do many parents fail to set boundaries, they expect everyone else to buy into their failure too.

NonPlayerCharacter · 17/01/2024 14:53

Notanotherbloodynamechange1 · 17/01/2024 14:42

I have never and will never hit my DC. But I do agree that for SOME children ruling with fear seems to be the only way. Permissive parenting is rife, lazy bone idle parents who can’t get their own lives in order never mind a child’s. A child only has to turn their nose up at a food one time and “they’ve got sensory issues”. Parents who’s kids can do no wrong.

I 100% agree that all these problems were not around in your relatives day and it does beg the question, why now?

They were around, ffs. Do you have any idea how often millennials are accused of "inventing allergies"?

Hitting your kids was always shit parenting and now the stats and research are in and it's no longer even theoretically a matter of opinion. It's simply and objectively and factually shit parenting.

GoingDownLikeBHS · 17/01/2024 14:55

I'm 60+ and I definitely think this is a people in their 70s issue. I have friends over 70 and there seems to be some sort of vague "cut off" age around then when a significant number have very little idea about social norms or schools of thought now; like their opinions were formed in the 1960s and by jingo they're not due for an update any time soon. Or at all.

Obviously, before anyone leaps in, not all over 70 are like this but as a 60 something, I really notice it. I'm just hoping when I get to 70 I am in a like-minded cohort and "we" are more aware, I don't want to be sat in the elderly day centre having tea and cake with people talking about "kids nowadays" (or kids needing to be ruled with fear WTAF?!)

Westsussex · 17/01/2024 14:56

upwardsonwards · 17/01/2024 14:37

I think both permissive parenting and authoritarian parenting have equally damaging outcomes. I am watching a friend clearly cultivating a personality disorder in her son through permissive parenting, kicked out of multiple schools, police involved getting worse and worse but equally authoritarian parents can be malicious, cold and cruel which is very hard for children to recover from. There is a medium though. Boundaries, purpose, good relationships, fun etc.

I also have friends with this issue

Andthereyougo · 17/01/2024 14:57

Well I’m rapidly heading towards 70 and certainly wouldn’t ever think a child should be hit. I can think of lots of my friends, some older than me by 10 years who’d think the same.

Froggywentawalking234 · 17/01/2024 14:57

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

I’m nearly 60 and don’t know anyone who thinks this way now!

My late (older) parents used corporal punishment but very sparingly.

The reason it was deemed acceptable back in the sixties and seventies is simply because that was how the people doing it were raised.

My mammy had a wooden spoon and used it for corporal punishment. My brother had the slipper at school. Girls were smacked across the palm with a ruler. Unfortunately that was normal for then.

Thankfully, today is very different. Discipline should be about teaching and children can’t learn properly when afraid.

The only thing I would add though is I think the focus had moved too much from thinking about others to thinking about personal happiness or fulfilment and I think there needs to be a bit of a re-balance towards what is good for the collective rather than the individual. And more of a focus on personal responsibility and character than on personal gain and material “success”.

But I’m glad to say that my my DCs friends appear to be much kinder and more understanding of one another than we ever were at their age so things are already improving for the better.

GoingDownLikeBHS · 17/01/2024 14:57

I think we should maybe just stick with what @NonPlayerCharacter says - sums up the thread - hitting your kids is shit parenting.

Octavia64 · 17/01/2024 14:58

My dad died recently, and going through his stuff I found a load of newspapers from the fifties.

One report was of school kids deliberately burning another school kids in the playground.

Some kids have always been feral, no matter what.

Objectively we live in a much less violent society than we used to. Personally I consider this a better thing.

adultchildofalcoholicparents · 17/01/2024 15:01

My mother would have been in that age-group if she'd survived. She carried the physical scars of school beatings to the day that she died (beaten with a neck chain for wearing 3/4 length sleeves and knee-high socks at school - teacher who beat her thought my mother's 9-year old self was a hussy).

She wouldn't have advocated corrective beatings.

YABU for thinking it's a common attitude that belongs to specific age-groups.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants · 17/01/2024 15:04

Let me re-write your post for you OP.

I have a relative in his 70's who's an arsehole, with violent views on childcare.

There, that's fixed it. Are you always so 'general' in life? Do you often upset people? I think I know the answer.

Nonplusultra · 17/01/2024 15:06

It’s a topic that comes up now and then in my circles too. And the wooden spoon featured in a book the dc we’re reading in school. I was chatting about it with dd and jokingly suggested that I should buy a wooden spoon, and she said that if I slapped her she’d slap me back.

I am so proud of that reaction. She’s been raised to think of herself as entitled to body autonomy and respect. I can so quickly revert into frightened child mode, and I wouldn’t have dared talk back never mind slap back.

Which isn’t to say I’m a permissive parent - we’re quite clear on who is in charge. We face parenting challenges that our dps didn’t because our dc don’t fear us.

It’s worth remembering that there has been a lot of generational trauma, layered on trauma from successive world wars. Each generation improved vastly, within their capabilities on the last and I hope that trend continues.

BertieBotts · 17/01/2024 15:07

I think it's interesting to look at why people have this idea though, because it's clearly false - first of all, today's teenagers are statistically much better behaved than their predecessors - they drink less, smoke less, have less sex, are less violent.

And there is good research showing that harsh punishment is no more effective at discouraging unwanted behaviour than mild punishment, and that positive approaches focusing on encouraging a wanted behaviour, alongside relationship, communication and skill building (so, modern "soft" parenting) is even more effective than any kind of punishment. And in fact associating some antisocial behaviours with harsh, physical punishment in particular.

So (putting aside the argument of whether or not entire groups believe this and who they might be) why does anyone think that children are more badly behaved today? Why do they believe that harsh punishment is so effective?

It's a common viewpoint - isn't it? There are supposedly records of people holding this view going back almost as far as we have records of anyone recording their opinion at all. So there must be something else going on.

My theory is that people are remembering how they themselves felt about rules and their own fear of harsh discipline and wrongly attribute their own good behaviour to fear of that discipline, and generalise that to their entire generation and/or all humans everywhere, and so they see bad behaviour happening and assume that the person must have felt enabled to do this because they were not scared of being punished for it.

I heard recently that there is some research which shows if you punish a particular behaviour harshly, people are more likely to do the behaviour after the punishment-rule is lifted compared to a condition where people are given only a mild punishment for a behaviour (they were more likely to self-impose a continued ban on the behaviour) - so this is interesting in this respect, because perhaps if you were raised with harsh discipline and believe that you only continue following those social rules out of fear of consequences, rather than having internalised and agreeing with the rules, you might feel like well, everyone wants to do that but we don't because it's not allowed - whereas someone who was raised with a more positive approach / mild punishment approach might have considered the rules for themselves and decided to keep following them because most social rules DO make logical sense. It's possible that some people who have experienced harsh discipline haven't had that experience and therefore doesn't understand that other people do.

Or it could be a reaction to changing norms around respect - if you look at older generations, the further you go back the more formalised this is - so when we were children we were expected to listen to adults and call teachers Mr X, Mrs Y (whereas family friends were Jane, Steve, maybe Aunty Jane etc.) But in my parents' generation, they were expected to completely defer to adults at all times, all adults were Mr X, Mrs Y, you did not speak unless spoken to by an adult, they may have been expected to stand when a teacher of particular rank (e.g. headteacher) entered the room. A generation before that, children would call all adults "sir" or you get to the point where children are "seen and not heard" etc.

So norms change and certainly there are rules from my childhood that I haven't bothered with for my children because I find them fussy and out of date. I do think some people notice this change in children's behaviour and rather than seeing it as a change in social norms and expectations, they see it as the children being incredibly disrespectful towards adults and the adults not doing anything about it.

PeppermintMandy · 17/01/2024 15:09

CurlewKate · 17/01/2024 14:29

Sorry- I can't abide ageism.

Not the belief that children should be beaten into submission that bothers you but the ageism?

The apparent ageism that is displayed here goes both ways. When people say “parents these days” and “teens these days” they are generalising a specific age group of people. no actually most teens aren’t out stabbing each other and most parents don’t let their kids run riot 24:7.

Triffid1 · 17/01/2024 15:11

“Yeah, but we didn’t have teenagers stabbing each other back then”

I love these sorts of comments because they're so ridiculous. My question is - if it wasn't happening to middle or upper class children, would you have even heard about it back in the day? I assure you, that no one was videoing children being attacked in the street and The Times of London couldn't give a flying monkey's in 1972 if a working class boy was stabbed somewhere in Liverpool....

Similarly - were there really fewer behavioural issues at school? And if there were, was that because of the way teachers could cane the children? Or, just a thought, perhaps it was actually because lots o children just didn't go to School...?

The ignorance never ceases to amaze me. I'm from South Africa and I've heard people say things like, "Well, sure, apartheid was bad but we didn't have all this violence/we didn't see women being raped all the time". And not just WHITE people saying this shit....

CurlewKate · 17/01/2024 15:13

@PeppermintMandy
"Not the belief that children should be beaten into submission that bothers you but the ageism?"

Don't be silly.

BeingATwatItsABingThing · 17/01/2024 15:19

There are people of all ages who believe beating children is the way to parent. They are all wrong and abusive. I am not a permissive parent and am doing my best to raise children who are polite, respectful and independent. I don’t want push overs though who fear anyone in a position of authority. I don’t care what anyone says, physical punishment only creates fear and not respect.

If anyone said my child needed a ‘good hiding’, they wouldn’t be seeing them again. MIL used to physically punish DH and his siblings and I made it very clear that that’s not how we would be parenting (he agreed completely) and if she ever used those methods with our children, we would go NC.

ScierraDoll · 17/01/2024 15:19

He's right though. We have far more lack of respect, feelings of entitlement and self importance than in my day

NonPlayerCharacter · 17/01/2024 15:28

ScierraDoll · 17/01/2024 15:19

He's right though. We have far more lack of respect, feelings of entitlement and self importance than in my day

Has there ever been a generation that didn't believe this?

Down the long slide, like free bloody birds...

Soubriquet · 17/01/2024 15:29

Corporal punishment never works, but at the same time, some parents are absolutely wet when it comes to punishing their kids so bad behaviour is a lot more common place too

Swipe left for the next trending thread