“The problem with children these days is that they need a bloody good hiding”

[TheHeadOfTheHouse]

Said by a relative in his 70s.

I’m noticing that the older generation (over 60s) seem to think that although they were beaten to a pulp, they still think this is the correct way to bring children up.

We have Autism and ADHD in our wider family. Older relatives don’t seem to be very tolerant of this and keep implying that the cause of this is too soft parenting.

A relative was having a debate with me the other day saying how parenting was much better in his day, police could hit you, teachers used to cane you etc and how there wasn’t the behaviour that we have these days.

He was very defensive when I told him that I’m very glad all that has been abolished.

“Yeah, but we didn’t have teenagers stabbing each other back then”

Hes one of a few people I’ve come across lately who is all for hitting children.

It seems to be were Autism and ADHD children are concerned that it seems to provoke people saying this

Older generations have been saying this for years. I’m 40 and heard this in my youth (albeit not about me 😝). I am surprised that it’s not gotten any better since obviously those who are within the older generation now should have witnessed how the world has evolved.

I think you just try your best to ignore it. They’re just opinions that you don’t need to take on board. By the sounds of it, they’re not disciplining or attempting to discipline your children or any others so they’re not enacting their views, nor does it sound like they would try to.

And teenagers DID stab each other back in their day. There just wasn’t the internet to communicate these things happening.

While I agree that physical punishment is always unacceptable, the logical conclusion of improved parenting skills over the years would presumably be more secure, productive, mentally healthy adults with good quality relationships?

And yet poor mental health in young adults is at an all time high?

Is that for different reasons or despite good parenting? You would think that good, calm, attentive parenting would be somewhat protective against poor mh?

And yet poor mental health in young adults is at an all time high?Is that for different reasons or despite good parenting?

I honestly don't think we know enough yet. A significant proportion will come down to increased awareness and diagnosis; before, many people would have spent their lives depressed and not even knowing it (and quite likely hitting their kids as a sign of it).

But even if it is on the up, I think an increased use of screens (she said on Mumsnet, I know), reduced in-person socialisation, salaries not keeping up at all with cost of living and increased isolation that comes from living in much online and not having strong enough real-world communities, are much more to blame than not being hit by your parents.

I went to a secondary modern school too. It was in 1964 the school leaving age was raised to 16, not 1970.
1964. the year I left school. I had to stay on an extra year because the leaving age was lifted to 16. I’d got an apprenticeship in Men’s Tailoring and had to defer it for a year.

A few people have tagged me saying the issues I pointed out still exist today. I couldn't be bothered having to spoon feed the point I was making but I am so fed up of the tagging. I never said that the behavioural issues I listed weren't around today. I was making the point that they were still there back in the day DESPITE the behavioural intervention of whacking the kids with the intention of cowing them into submission. There were poorly behaved kids back then. There are poorly behaved kids now. Behavioural interventions have change, kids misbehaving doesn't. There are reasons for this, biopsychosocial child development gives you some reasons. Thinking it all will be solved now or was 'better' back then (like the OP's relative stated) because of behaviour intervention is a bit silly really. It's way more complex than that.

Don't you think relationships have improved though? I think people in general have higher expectations from relationships today and they are generally healthier with better communication. Of course there are still gendered divides/expectations/etc today but not as extreme as in past generations, and not as much is excused as "Oh that's just men".

There is this podcast called "If Books Could Kill" and one of the first books they covered was "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" - which I remember my mum treating as some kind of vital translation bible to explain men's mysterious behaviour. The book (published in the 90s) opens with an anecdote about a husband who is baffled when his wife is upset with him when she sends him on an errand after she has had a baby and he fails to deliver what she needs. The male hosts of the podcast (2020s) are utterly HORRIFIED at the cluelessness of the man and how he can be so oblivious to his partner's distress, and it does come across to a modern audience as absolutely bizarre - it just wouldn't be a normal relationship scenario today - everyone would be saying "LTB"!

Sorry, this is in response to:

the logical conclusion of improved parenting skills over the years would presumably be more secure, productive, mentally healthy adults with good quality relationships?

@BertieBotts there were people at the time highly critical of that book. But there were still a lot of people who had been brought up in a very traditional way and who saw anything to do with babies and children as for women.

I think people have higher expectations now because they can divorce more easily. Partly that is about money. It was very hard for women to divorce in the past as most would be left in absolute poverty. But there was also a lot of stigma and judgement. So a lot of people stayed together that would now days divorce.

I'm not going to be gaslighted over my own childhood - I know how it was, I know how I feel about it and about my parents. I've read research - perhaps you've read more widely than me, I don't know - and I can't bring myself to get worked up over an occasional smacked bottom.

Going back to the OP about older generation saying the kids need a good hiding... I expect they're just shocked to see the way a lot of kids talk to parents/teachers these days. I don't think beating is the answer, but something has clearly gone wrong somewhere.

Love how a rebuttal on the Internet is gaslighting, and that's somehow worse than assaulting children. And from someone who declared the mental state of all adults you know who were smacked as if you're privy to that information. But you're being gaslit?

Your parents engaged in a technique that is now known to be shit and harmful and is thoroughly rejected by everyone who knows the first thing about it. They may not have known better but you should, and if you wish to reject that knowledge because you can't accept that your parents made a mistake like many others, that does not alter the results of decades of fact finding. Nor does the fact that you personally are not worked up about child assault.

Think what you like about your own childhood, but don't expect to excuse and minimise and defend that shit awful child assault technique in 2024 and not be countered for it. It's not OK.

It's not okay to hit an adult if they are annoying me/not listening to me/being a pain so how does anyone justify it towards children?

It's a loss of self control - simple as that.

I was hit occasionally as a child - I suffered (and still relapse if I stop anti depressants) with severe anxiety and OCD. Who knows if there is a relation anywhere.

I think if there is a debate to be had to children being more 'misbehaved' these days it is because everyone is so busy now and people find it easier to let things slide than challenge it.

In some cases it is laziness, in other cases I think it is pure exhaustion and declining mental health in general across the population.

I am not sure what the answer is though - most households now require both parents to work, most can't afford live in help, not everyone has family help (I know I don't, my mum works full time herself and had further children with her second husband, my partners mum also works full time which includes weekends).

Most of us are so burnt out in modern society - it doesn't mean it's fine to allow bad behaviour but I do also appreciate it more now I've had children of my own and am trying to juggle a lot of plates.

I am not justifying it, but plenty of adults do hit each other. So I am not sure that is a good starting point. Especially as some adults think it is fine to hit other adults in particular circumstances.

And they can rightly be convicted of assault and/or domestic abuse.

My point wasn't whether or not adults hitting each other happens but that most do not find it acceptable.

I doubt that OPs relative in their 70s would say that statement about an adult.

@BeingATwatItsABingThing so can adults hitting children.

@Strawberrylacess surveys show that a sizeable minority of adults do think it is acceptable for adults to hit other adults in specific circumstances.

It is a shitty technique that is associated with every bad outcome including trauma and reduced intelligence, and smackers themselves have been found as a group to tend towards lower intelligence, which really shouldn't surprise anyone.

What an absolute crock of shit! Lower intelligence? My mum smacked me occasionally, as I have already stated, but unintelligent she was most certainly not! And neither am I from having been smacked! Absolute tripe!

I kind of see where they're coming from. Times were different most kids were broought up with 2 parents and 1 stayed at home ti look after the chikdren so they had consistent parenting. Now kids (often ) have lax parenting as parents all have to work amd its exhausting dealing with bratty behaviour on top..
Kids have so many differing discipline styles throughout the day now.

Parent gets them up and out then ( 1 set of rules) go to childminder (2nd set of rules) then to school (3rd set of rules) maybe other parent collects from school (4th set of rule) go to grandparents house 5th set of rules

Its tougher to be consistent in these busy times and we have all seen failing gentle parenting im not saying smacking is correct at all but good discipline is definitely necessary

Yes, lower intelligence. I'm not talking about your self reported anecdote, I'm talking about proper research at a class level and yes, parents who hit their kids have been found to score lower on intelligence tests overall than those who don't, and their kids suffer similar effects too.

Rather than railing against the findings, or dismissing them because of your self reported anecdote, you could try not defending the technique. That would be the intelligent thing to do. Hitting doesn't encourage complex thinking, and the Pope is Catholic.

I am now in my fifties so below this generation. I was hit, sometimes beaten by my parents. This was common then. Overall my mum and dad did a good job. However this way of child rearing impacted me as an adult. One thing notable even now is that when I get into any kind of conflict in my head I fear it will turn physical and I become very tense. These disciplinary ways are in the past, had profound implications for recipients and are not for now.

I am a fan of strong discipline for kids and kids knowing consequences. I also think that a lesson from the past is that discipline should be swift and proportionate. What at one stage would have been a quick discussion and quick punishment now can leave children with interventions that last for years. Not sure this is helpful sometimes.

I've never met anyone who was occasionally smacked (most of my generation) who is traumatised by it. @Sapphire387

Oddly enough I was just talking to my therapist this morning about how I was smacked occasionally as a child. She made a connection which I had never made myself - that a direct line could be drawn between that and certain patterns of feeling and behaviour that have dogged me all my adult life, and affected my relationships (badly).

She said that it was in fact trauma - not the severe, shell-shock kind, but trauma just the same, in that the fear and anger from those childhood smackings was still within me, unresolved.

I'd never even realised. But it made so much sense.

Amazing, my father was uninvolved and gone by the time I was eight and I never had incentive to achieve or any ambition, and yet I've never been involved in knife crime, or any crime at all.

I thi k also possibly male sex is a risk factor.

That would certainly add to it. It was the "key factors" and the usual hint of blaming single mothers that had me rolling my eyes.