Colleague saying she has ASD/ADHD whenever I mention being ND - how to handle?

[Benchbythesea]

First of all, apologies for length of post - trying to provide enough context so it doesn't come across as goady. Also namechanged for this.

Context - I have a colleague who I have quite a lot of interaction with, eg group meetings and discussions. She is junior to me, but I don't manage her - we're on different teams but we work face to face in an open plan office and our teams collaborate a lot.

I've worked alongside them for a while, and for background I would say she's quite 'needy' - always got a drama of some sort that she will share in the office, sounds genuine but perhaps a little bit unaware that other people might also have similar problems but might not be quite as vocal about it. However she's good at her job, well liked, it's not an issue just something I've noticed (eg not to get too drawn in). I'm also aware that she's got an invisible disability and she does seem to seek attention a bit around this too, eg dropping flippant/casual comments about this and behaving like it's no big deal, eg people making small talk about the weekend and she'll say something like 'oh yeah, Saturday wasn't that exciting, spent it having an emergency blood transfusion but y'know....' which can be a bit of a conversation stopper. However I do understand that having an invisible disability is tough and she may be feel the need to remind people of it, it may not even been a conscious thing.

I have ASD. I am open about this at work, partly because I burned out in my last job pre diagnosis, and because I feel it's helpful when managing staff so we understand each other.

Theres been a few times recently when I've mentioned my ASD, eg in the context of finding something difficult, eg travelling for a large conference. I tend to mention things but keep it light, eg laughing about how presenting to a room of two hundred people didn't bother me at all but I'd prepped for days about how to do the small talk at the lunch after. Most people at work are supportive, and I've signposted a couple for support for suspected or diagnosed ND when they've asked me.

Colleague has made a few comments previously about autism being a superpower/we're all on the spectrum etc, which I haven't challenged as I felt it was intended well even if not something I personally agree with.

More recently when it's come up, she's started saying that she's sure she's autistic and has ADHD. She's not seeking a diagnosis, but she's 'sure'. If I've mentioned an example she tends to respond 'oh yeah me too... And goes on to 'trump' it by adding in an ADHD example (eg something like 'oh god yeah small talk, and that's even if I turn up on time because of my adhd')

Now... I respect that a lot of people are ND and don't seek diagnosis for many reasons. I get that masking is a big deal. I don't 'own' being autistic. I aim to create an environment where people feel confident in sharing their differences. But I just can't help feel that she's doing this to compete/bring attention back to her?

One reason why this bothers me I think - is ASD being a social and communication issue primarily - is it's bloody hard. And this colleague happens to be brilliant (genuinely) at many things which I just struggle to believe could be masked ASD. For example - excellent at networking, already made a name for herself in the company with very senior management due to this, despite being quite junior. Great at banter, very popular, loads of friends. Very active social life, has travelled the world, worked abroad etc etc. And I know there are people with ASD who have done all those things, but it just doesn't feel like she has any struggles re social/communication skills, quite the opposite. And re ADHD - the examples she brings up - being energetic, bored easily etc - really seem to be every day examples. Like being bored in a long, dull meeting. She's organised in work, rarely late, great memory, no issues with multiple tasks, finishes things she starts, plans well etc.

I've tried to just ignore it so far, and where I can avoid any reference to ASD around her, but she's mentioning it more and more. I'm worried that if I say nothing that at some point I'll snap and say something I shouldn't (I can be a bit too direct if my mask slips!) But then I've no right to challenge her if she's sure/she believes she's neurodiverse. Any advice on how to handle this?

I don't know what ASD stands for but I am a massive introvert and do all the things you mention, I run several networking groups, worked over seas and network outside my groups extensively. It exhausts me, I go home and straight to bed. It takes every bit of strength I have to do it. I often throw up in the toilets at the events. I do it because it's my job. Maybe she does too

@Benchbythesea you say you’re aware she has an invisible disability, and then you say she’s sure she’s autistic & had ADHD, but isn’t diagnosed for either. So is her invisible disability something else, and does she have a diagnosis for it?

I don't think you'll be able to change her behaviour so a couple of possible strategies- avoid mentioning your ND to her as far as possible. If she brings hers up, be very grey rock, 'oh right' etc.

I would really try to avoid getting into any kind of discussion or disagreement with her as I don't think it would end well for anyone, as annoying as she may be!

i have adhd. I’m an introvert who struggles massively with lots of things including networking, public speaking etc. I’m also a successful professional in a role that requires me to network, charm clients and speak in public in a highly pressurised environment. It isn’t one size fits all.

I think you just have to ignore. Or say yes, it's difficult or similar. I don't think you can challenge her.

She sounds a bit needy, really and wants to be the centre or ' the worst' for sympathy. Or she could be genuinely ND.

As you’ve discovered, sometimes the audience doesn’t just want to listen to the speaker. Sometimes they want to have a conversation. You don’t always then get to control what that conversation is.

I think avoiding referencing your ASD unless it’s relevant to your work or somebody has asked is probably the way to go, with this colleague and with others. Tbh, I think you’re overestimating how much interest your colleagues have in your neurodiversity and your desire to raise their awareness of it. With the exception of the two or three I actually consider friends, I’m generally not particularly interested in listening to my colleagues talk about their health problems, their neurodiversity, their personality disorders, their inner selves, their gender identities, their pronouns, or whatever other differences about them that are probably interesting to their mum and their friends but not really to me. Choose your audience. You don’t like the reaction this one is giving you, yet you’re giving them no option but to be your audience.

@WriterOfWrongs sorry if it wasn't clear, her invisible disability is a physical one, quite significant from what I understand (the result of an accident, so something she had to come to terms with when older)

@user73

This. None of my friends or work colleagues know I have adhd. It isn’t their issue, it’s mine.

@user73 I'm also in a high pressured, professional/corporate environment so I understand that one size doesn't fit all. I also realise how being autistic has massively limited me in life, not that I'm doing badly but I have definitely limited my career aspirations because of it. As I've said I've helped others who have asked me about either ASD or ADHD. I supervise one who has autism, ADHD and OCD and though they're doing ok, I'm aware of how much they struggle with in the job and how much support they need.
What's different about this person is - only bringing it up if I am talking about myself, and giving very ordinary examples (I like to use the same parking space, that's how I know I'm autistic) type of thing. It doesn't feel genuine. I feel like a cow for saying that but it really does feel like it's to change the conversation back to her and to get me to shut up.

Thanks @Benchbythesea , gotcha.

I have ADHD (and my DD has ASD too and has been told it was a superpower by some). I would find it very annoying to have someone who is not diagnosed call it a superpower and say they have it too.

You are entitled to reasonable adjustments for your ASD, she is not as she isn’t diagnosed.

I wouldn’t chat or joke about your ASD unless it’s important for your colleagues to understand why you struggle or need a reasonable adjustment.

I would avoid engaging this woman about neurodiversity.

However if continues comparing the two of you or unintentionally minimising your issues in some way, I’d informally speak to your manager about it. Because you deserve to have a workplace where someone isn’t regularly mis-characterising a disability as a superpower, unless that’s how you feel about it too.

My son has ASD and ADHD and after decades of profound social anxiety did a load of work on himself and takes sertraline for anxiety. Now, socially and at work he seems like the most confident, laid back person. I know what's behind that mask - the fugue state hours of being comatose back in the safety of home, to decompress after being 'on' for days on end. Or the quick phone calls home in a massive panic because the boss has asked him something entirely reasonable and he has distorted its importance in his mind and is melting down inside. But no one can tell. He now masks every tell tale sign of it so well.

I have ADHD (recently diagnosed) and have always hated how scatterbrained I am. I can never - ever - remember my keys, where i put my phone etc. It is an on going battle. And yet at work I usually present as efficient. I cover up endless memory slips so no one knows and have duplicates of all sorts of things so there's always one to hand as I lose everything I touch.

Don't assume because someone presents differently from you that they aren't ND. You are lucky to have a diagnosis. If you find her comments irritating, keep your own to a minimum. Or maybe take her aside over coffee and say: you keep mentioning you are ND - why don't you get tested. Life is easier with a proper diagnosis.

I think everyone else is right, I just wouldn’t speak to her about it. Or in her hearing if I could help it. I’d limit contact with her as much as I could within the bounds of doing my job tbh.

ASD = Autism Spectrum Disorder

@ComtesseDeSpair I didn't share initially but I feel I have to mention it at some points. I've previously had issues in jobs for coming across aloof/disinterested, for talking over people in meetings, for reacting rudely when people change my diary, for not picking up when people hint things. All of those things have an impact working in a team and especially when supervising - I supervise a lot of new graduates who are great but need nurture and I need them to know how to communicate with me. I have some awareness of where my limits are but that awareness doesn't translate into being able to do anything about it at the time.

I would prefer it if my ASD wasn't noticeable to anyone, but it is. Being open about it (and I mean generally just not hiding it, not that I talk about myself all the time - I'm very quiet at work) - has on the whole, helped - as people don't take it as personally if these things happen, and we can have a conversation about how to try and improve things for the next time.

@Bobbybobbins tbh I've been trying to avoid her as I though I've tried to grey rock, she's ramped up! I am worried that avoiding her will become noticeable in itself, and we do often have to work together on things.

Although I can see why you find it annoying , I think you are being unreasonable tbh. You don’t know whether she is neurodiverse and yet you are trying to armchair evaluate / assess her based on your perception of her traits and capabilities. Yes it’s self absorbed and not very good manners of her to constantly insert herself into the conversation, but at the same time, if you are discussing your personal issues at work, you can hardly judge her for discussing hers as she sees them.

What's different about this person is - only bringing it up if I am talking about myself, and giving very ordinary examples (I like to use the same parking space, that's how I know I'm autistic) type of thing. It doesn't feel genuine. I feel like a cow for saying that but it really does feel like it's to change the conversation back to her and to get me to shut up.

The chances are that if you’ve noticed it, other people will have noticed it too. You’re probably not the only person who thinks she’s a little attention seeking.

There could be lots of reasons for it, including that she is actually ND, but none of them make it less annoying to deal with,

So I think you just need to work on your radical acceptance that it’s not about you, it’s her own issues and you don’t need to correct her, rise to any bait or otherwise engage with it. Tune it out.

I'm sure she will get a diagnosis if she wants one. So many people do now.

I think you are being completely unreasonable. Not liking if she mentions something about her hidden disability and you say its conversation stopping if she does, but yet you're completely fine mentioning yours and making light of it. I'm struggling to see the difference?

A lot of people are undiagnosed likely ADHD etc, it's not an issue.

Hmm. I’m torn on this one. I’m AuDHD (combined ADHD). Late diagnosed. I’m quite sociable and network okay at work (struggled to ‘play the game’ enough to get promoted but I’m okay with that because I can’t be fake). From the outside I’d probably come across as quite confident, if a bit weird. I’m quite open about being ND because I overshare and as mentioned, seem weird. I find it easier to be honest, explain why I am like I am! I’ve been struggling recently, burnt out (hence the MN name).
I do think it’s easy for people to jump to assuming they are ND, especially if it’s mentions like the parking spaces. Like they say ‘Everyone has traits but it needs to really impact your life to be on the spectrum’. It does sound like she wants to almost fit in with you, jumping on anything you mention as ‘I do that!’. She may be struggling more than she lets on. I would minimise the talk about being ND and if she does bring it up, point her to some resources (like ADHD love, Dirty laundry book, other social media ND folks) that will help if she is ND/or help her realise she’s not if she isn’t..without saying much either way. I do think we tend to have a radar for other ND folks but I’m certainly not trained to diagnose and some people have surprised me!

@Nestofwalnuts in respect of your comment about being lucky to have a diagnosis - I am still paying off the loan I took out to go private as where I live, the NHS 'don't do' adult autism assessments. The company I now work for actually cover assessments for autism and ADHD under their health benefit package, so if she did want to go down that route she could. As I said I don't judge anyone for choosing not to be assessed, it's complicated. But please don't use the fact that I'm diagnosed and she isn't as evidence that I'm lucky/she's unlucky, it is an option should she want it.

Im not sure why some posters think I'm naive about how people can successfully mask with autism, given I've shared I have to do that myself. She is one of the most naturally talented people at socialising, networking, that I've met - not just in work, in general. I know a lot about her because she does share a lot and talks about herself a lot, everything from school/uni/home life/friends/relationships. Nothing to suggest she's had any kind of struggles, she is quite exceptionally successful, not just in a work capacity. She could be lying about that I suppose, though that would be odd in itself. But it would seem strange to me to have a disability in your social and communication skills and well, never apparently having any problems with such things, ever. Not now, not growing up. NB I know that ASD doesn't just affect social/, communication, my assessor explained that as being the fundamental part of ASD, ie that is the 'primary' diagnostic criteria that has to come first and the rest is evaluated if that exists and started in childhood. Just to explain why I reference it.

Anyway I've already said I know I can't challenge her/she's entitled to that belief. It's more about how I avoid it bothering me when I have to work with her, especially as I've said if I'm under pressure I can be too direct (I try really hard not to) @NoSquirrels I really like the radical acceptance idea, that's something to think about, thank you.

You all seem to spend a lot of time talking about yourselves at work. Maybe just get on with the job for a bit?

It's more about how I avoid it bothering me when I have to work with her

When I’m managing / working with colleagues on a project, at the start I always make sure that we all identify and establish our strengths and weaknesses and make each other aware of things which we think may both help and impede our contributions and communication. That’s good working practice regardless of whether anybody has a diagnosed condition - because “neurotypical” is a bucket for an enormous range and variety of human, and neurotypical people also have things that make them angry or anxious or snappy, and can be abrasive and direct and oblivious to hints, or prefer to always sit at the same desk or only want email communication not Teams messaging or phone calls.

Rather than relating everything back to your ASD, thus inviting comparison from your colleague over her own traits and preferences and yours, take the same approach with everyone regardless of whether they’re diagnosed or diagnosable or not.

eg dropping flippant/casual comments about this and behaving like it's no big deal, eg people making small talk about the weekend and she'll say something like 'oh yeah, Saturday wasn't that exciting, spent it having an emergency blood transfusion but y'know....' which can be a bit of a conversation stopper.

...

Theres been a few times recently when I've mentioned my ASD, eg in the context of finding something difficult, eg travelling for a large conference. I tend to mention things but keep it light, eg laughing about how presenting to a room of two hundred people didn't bother me at all but I'd prepped for days about how to do the small talk at the lunch after.

These are exactly the same behaviours , you're both talking about your invisible disability and trying to make light of them.

Just ignore her, she'll either get a diagnosis or move on to the next thing. Perhaps avoid mentioning your own diagnosis around her if that's both possible and something you feel comfortable doing.

Tbh, it gets so tiresome these days when in an office environment where there’s a competition going on between so many people about who presents with the most classic ADHD/autism characteristics. It seems there are more people with it than without. Agree with a poster up thread - work colleagues just aren’t interested in it. Also at the school gates - every other parent thinks their child has ADHD and is on a waiting list for assessment.

@HeidiIeigh I'm going to kindly assume you misunderstood my post. When I say she mentions something conversation stopping, I mean people are shocked, worried, don't know how to react. She'll mention something that sounds like a near death experience in a chat about what people did on Friday night, 2 mins before a meeting starts. People will seek out managers because they're worried as to whether she should be in work. I have checked with her manager that she has all the right support in place re her disability and I do flag up if I think her manager needs to check in with her. I mentioned it because I wondered if she needs reassurance from people and I felt it could be relevant to what else I shared. I said it my post it wasn't a problem, but an observation. I used to get really worried about her and would get drawn into things a lot until I realised I needed to take a step back.

I mention my asd usually to colleagues that I'm closer to, when I'm struggling. They also joke with me about it, eg if they want something doing very very detailed they'll come to me because that's how my brain works. We work well as a team. In the wider group I might mention it because I need people to be aware that for example, if they want me to do a task, I need them to directly ask. Saying in earshot 'wouldn't it be good if we could speed up x by doing y' isn't enough for me to pick up that they want me to do something. Like I said to another poster, I'd prefer in many ways not to share that I'm autistic, I'm quite a private person, but it is noticeable. I don't do eye contact, I'm quite flat in my expression however hard I try to act 'normally' It's easy for people to assume I'm unfriendly for example, and things like that aren't great in the workplace.