Colleague saying she has ASD/ADHD whenever I mention being ND - how to handle?

[Benchbythesea]

First of all, apologies for length of post - trying to provide enough context so it doesn't come across as goady. Also namechanged for this.

Context - I have a colleague who I have quite a lot of interaction with, eg group meetings and discussions. She is junior to me, but I don't manage her - we're on different teams but we work face to face in an open plan office and our teams collaborate a lot.

I've worked alongside them for a while, and for background I would say she's quite 'needy' - always got a drama of some sort that she will share in the office, sounds genuine but perhaps a little bit unaware that other people might also have similar problems but might not be quite as vocal about it. However she's good at her job, well liked, it's not an issue just something I've noticed (eg not to get too drawn in). I'm also aware that she's got an invisible disability and she does seem to seek attention a bit around this too, eg dropping flippant/casual comments about this and behaving like it's no big deal, eg people making small talk about the weekend and she'll say something like 'oh yeah, Saturday wasn't that exciting, spent it having an emergency blood transfusion but y'know....' which can be a bit of a conversation stopper. However I do understand that having an invisible disability is tough and she may be feel the need to remind people of it, it may not even been a conscious thing.

I have ASD. I am open about this at work, partly because I burned out in my last job pre diagnosis, and because I feel it's helpful when managing staff so we understand each other.

Theres been a few times recently when I've mentioned my ASD, eg in the context of finding something difficult, eg travelling for a large conference. I tend to mention things but keep it light, eg laughing about how presenting to a room of two hundred people didn't bother me at all but I'd prepped for days about how to do the small talk at the lunch after. Most people at work are supportive, and I've signposted a couple for support for suspected or diagnosed ND when they've asked me.

Colleague has made a few comments previously about autism being a superpower/we're all on the spectrum etc, which I haven't challenged as I felt it was intended well even if not something I personally agree with.

More recently when it's come up, she's started saying that she's sure she's autistic and has ADHD. She's not seeking a diagnosis, but she's 'sure'. If I've mentioned an example she tends to respond 'oh yeah me too... And goes on to 'trump' it by adding in an ADHD example (eg something like 'oh god yeah small talk, and that's even if I turn up on time because of my adhd')

Now... I respect that a lot of people are ND and don't seek diagnosis for many reasons. I get that masking is a big deal. I don't 'own' being autistic. I aim to create an environment where people feel confident in sharing their differences. But I just can't help feel that she's doing this to compete/bring attention back to her?

One reason why this bothers me I think - is ASD being a social and communication issue primarily - is it's bloody hard. And this colleague happens to be brilliant (genuinely) at many things which I just struggle to believe could be masked ASD. For example - excellent at networking, already made a name for herself in the company with very senior management due to this, despite being quite junior. Great at banter, very popular, loads of friends. Very active social life, has travelled the world, worked abroad etc etc. And I know there are people with ASD who have done all those things, but it just doesn't feel like she has any struggles re social/communication skills, quite the opposite. And re ADHD - the examples she brings up - being energetic, bored easily etc - really seem to be every day examples. Like being bored in a long, dull meeting. She's organised in work, rarely late, great memory, no issues with multiple tasks, finishes things she starts, plans well etc.

I've tried to just ignore it so far, and where I can avoid any reference to ASD around her, but she's mentioning it more and more. I'm worried that if I say nothing that at some point I'll snap and say something I shouldn't (I can be a bit too direct if my mask slips!) But then I've no right to challenge her if she's sure/she believes she's neurodiverse. Any advice on how to handle this?

OK...I've skimmed a bit. You have your ways, she has hers. She's not really doing anything 'wrong' so my suggestions are to be blunt and tell her not to speak to you directly about yours/her actual/possible ND. This will likely affect your relationship as she's unlikely to agree to this level of control over her dialogue and will likely disengage.
You could also try getting someone to act as an intermediary and convey your concerns and wishes.
Ultimately though it's about your reactions and whether or not your able to do your job with/without adaptations and I'd guess HR/OT is the route to take, maybe even CBT. If you're a pretty valued worker they might agree to you simply leaving the room for a moment when things get too much for you. I feel it's unreasonable to sensor someone speaking about themselves.
Good luck.

I think you just don't like her, and that's ok.

But keep it as simple as that.

No need for either of you to play hidden disability Top Trumps (I have an ND diagnosis btw).

I also think it was fine for her to talk about having an emergency blood transfusion at the weekend.

Some people seem to exclude others without a diagnosis which is unfair. There is a myriad of reasons why people have yet to pursue a formal diagnosis. I have a friend who is on a 6 year waiting for ADHD assessment. She is struggling and some people act like it’s an exclusive club when all she wants is to chat to others who understand and get some helpful strategies.

@Teder , unlike the OP @Benchbythesea , I don't agree.

The issue for me is, that those of us who are diagnosed with ADHD are in a difficult position. I feel for your friend waiting years, I've been there. But she's at least in the system waiting. The OP's colleague has refused to get an assessment privately through her work.

Whilst you say some act like it's an exclusive club, there are MANY people, some on this thread, who think that these days it's a totally inclusive club. It can't be both, can it?

IIRC there's comments on here like everyone at the school gates is trying to get their child diagnosed with ADHD, and so many adults are saying they have it. I've seven social media posts in the last month saying something like 'I know so many women who now have ADHD, what's going on?' and making sarcastic comments that of course X celebrity has announced that they have it.

I got diagnosed nearly 9 years ago by the NHS after waiting years. However these days I am acutely aware that as so many people are getting diagnosed now, including the huge recent increase in private diagnoses, if I tell someone I have it these days they are likely to internally eye roll. And they'll know others are do. Which is great, but...

It dilutes the value of having a diagnosis for a disability, something that has adversely affected me and others and which comes with legal protections, if people self-diagnose when many neurotypical are already fed up with how many of us there are anyway and stop listening.

Wow. That was extremely rude of you.

If no one is starting a fight you asked if you were being unreasonable. Why have you asked if you are so closed to hearing other points of view?

Wah typo, SEEN not seven

This is what happens when they lump everyone together into the same ASD diagnosis IMO.

A lot of professionals dont agree with the overarching descriptor though and I think in time it will change again, as things like this are wont to do.

Why are you so closed to reading even the most basic parts, eg the thread title? The first post? Personally I think it's very rude and self important to put my opinion in a thread without doing so. As the poster I replied to did, and as you are clearly now doing, otherwise you wouldn't have asked what you have just asked?

(Clue: ' how to handle'. In case you're still unsure)

Oh dear.

OP, I think you need to take a step back from the thread now.

AIBU stands for Am I Being Unreasonable?

You're posting in a section that literally canvasses opinions, not advice.

I'm sorry you've misunderstood but that doesn't excuse your tone.

@WriterOfWrongs I get what you mean, and I didn't mean to suggest there's no middle ground. I'm sympathetic to people who self diagnose because for many there is no option to get a diagnosis. Or not for an extortionately long time. Or because of barriers such as GPs who won't refer if someone has outward signs of success, such as a family, job etc.
That said I do believe that people should do some decent research and take time to reflect before committing to/telling people that they have a condition, whether that's ASD or anything.

I don't want to get into the discussion on here because it's upsetting and I don't trust how some would react to it, but there are people in my family who weren't diagnosed, who looking back were very likely to have been autistic, who suffered severely. I think that part is often overlooked when it comes to discussions about increases in the number of people being diagnosed, although a few posters in here (sorry can't remember names) have made that point which has been encouraging to see.

Oh dear. OP, clearly you are the one who would start an argument in an empty room. Maybe just own it and move on!

@Benchbythesea I was talking specifically about ADHD, not autism, and I do think there is a difference. It was how I feel as a woman with ADHD specifically.

Oh absolutely there are people of middle-age or older generations who have ADHD and autism and never got diagnosed, and you're wrong if I don't think that is rather heartbreaking.

But my point, which I don't think I made clear enough to you, is that people can of course think they have it, that's the first step to even getting a diagnosis. But categorically saying they have it in the workplace when they're not even on the pathway for assessment is crossing a line IMO.

TBH, is have ASD and ADHD and I enjoy networking - in part because I am ND. Networking is very formulaic, and everyone masks to a degree doing it - even NT people. So it feels fine.

I find it harder when I have met people a few times, but do not know them well. So I have run out of practiced small talk, but don't feel I can just be me around them.

She may not have a diagnosis, but your description does sound like she is probably ND in someway.

I sometimes think people 1) forget the spectrum aspect of ASD. And 2) forget some people are extrovert and some people introvert and this is separate to any neurodiversity. An introverted NT people may hate networking, where as an extroverted ND person may enjoy it.

@thatsjustthewayitisok please don't talk to me like I'm a child. I've been on Mumsnet a long time. There are plenty of WWYD threads on here. There are always 'traffic' threads. Posting a thread like this isn't unusual or exceptional for Mumsnet aibu, nor is it unusual for some people not to post in good faith. Fortunately though there are as usual posters who are willing to have useful discussions aside from that, which is the part I'm interested in.

I think I would just avoid talking about ASD in front of her. If you don’t work in the same team you probably don’t need to?

And otherwise just be nice but fairly distant. I don’t think you need to engage with what support she’s getting for her disability, her manager can do that. The stopping conversation with dramatic stories of weekend transfusions thing is odd but not really an issue for you.

disengage basically

@WriterOfWrongs I understood you were referencing ADHD sorry. I just meant that I think taking the time to do some research and be sure as you can be about things is morally applicable to any condition.

Im not trying to challenge your view about feeling people shouldn't say it in work though. I'm slightly more on the fence about it personally, but I understand why you've got a different experience and view. And anecdotally, I've certainly come across more people who have self identified as having ADHD rather than being autistic, so I can appreciate that must be difficult in itself.

Of course the preferred route would be reasonable and timely access to assessments in the first place!

@EsmeSusanOgg thats interesting about introversion/extroversion and ND. I genuinely don't think I've come across anyone (or read anyone's experience) of someone who has ASD and is an extrovert. Although it makes sense that it's separate. I've certainly come across people with ADHD who are extroverts and have a friend who has ADHD and is likely introverted, preferring to spend a lot of time on their own. But not ASD and extroversion. It's something I'll try and find out more about as that might help me to understand her (or anyone else) a bit better.

@Benchbythesea I said this earlier a few times, but to be clear for those reading: part of the reason I think it's wrong to state as a fact you have ADHD (or indeed autism in this instance) in the workplace is because of the legal ramifications.

In the workplace you are entitled to reasonable adjustments and protection from disability discrimination if you declare it to your employers. Such a declaration will need to be backed up with proof, either at the start or in case there is any potential legal situation later on.

If you do not declare and don't have a diagnosis, you are not entitled to claim disability discrimination for ADHD/autism specifically.

And to reiterate, when so many self-diagnosis and declare it alongside those of us who are diagnosed, people roll their eyes and don't care, an attitude we've seen on this thread. Which means that those of us who are legally entitled to accommodations may find others dismissive of our needs.

You are absolutely right of course that the core issue is reasonable and timely access to assessment.

But you have to accept that you might be told that you are unreasonable along the way.

In terms of the work situation and what I would do? I'd work on my own emotional regulation if I were in your shoes. Because I think that is at the heart of this situation.

OP, I understand (I haven’t RTFT though).

I have ADHD. It was identified at school, so although I didn’t get a diagnosis until uni, I’m extremely lucky in some ways.

Recently, everyone seems to be saying they have ADHD. Every single person on my team at work thinks they have it. My in-laws both say they have it. Everybody I mention it to thinks they’re at least “a little ADHD”. A new colleague at work told me he came into the office because he was bored working at home “because of [his] ADHD”. I opened up to him about my own diagnosis and he then said he isn’t diagnosed, but is sure he has it because he’s either focused on something or not at all. But surely that’s normal?

It’s very difficult knowing that people are rolling their eyes when you say you have ADHD, because “everyone has a bit of that”. My MIL even went as far as to tell me it’s my responsibility to manage my symptoms better - like she does! Sadly, I think a lot of people are thinking the same way, and it makes it so difficult for me to access the help and support I so desperately need to stay afloat.

I’m also aware that there is a whole generation of ADHD women out there who are finally being heard. They aren’t women who lose their keys sometimes or forget the occasional appointment; they’re women who, like me, struggle with their symptoms every single day. So I’m extremely glad that we’ve reached a point where this can happen, but this attitude of “we’re all a bit ADHD” seems to be a side effect.

The good news is that when it stops being trendy to say you have ADHD, me and these other women will still have a better understanding of ourselves than we did when this all started, and we’ll still have each other…because that’s another positive of the current boom: it’s much easier to find other ADHD women online to share stories and advice with, now :)

@theduchessofspork I understand the advice but have explained why that's difficult in practice. Our teams collaborate a lot and we are in a lot of the same meetings or group discussions, sometimes I have to oversee work that is done jointly or give guidance. Whilst we have separate management structures we work together in a large open plan space with a lot of interaction. I have been trying to avoid her but am limited in how much I can do so without it being noticeable/treating her unfairly. There are some accommodations I have that get mentioned in order to do the work that we do, eg about how tasks are directed, allowance to wear headphones in the office. Due to turnover of staff, volume of people, visitors, it's not something I can say once and trust everyone knows or remembers. Not doing so causes more issues unfortunately.

@Benchbythesea in terms of extroversion with ASD, I think what's pertinent in @EsmeSusanOgg 's case is that she has both ASD and ADHD, and the AuDHD presentation is different from a stereotypical ASD one. My 18 yo DD has both and is a mixture of extroverted and introverted.

I understand the OP's frustrations. I don't know what the answer is to the problem but I can relate.

There are people out there who make their whole personalities out of illnesses, disorders and syndromes, many of which are suspected rather than diagnosed. It get tiring. It discredits the purpose of getting diagnosis and to those who are genuinely disabled and suffering.

@Benchbythesea no problem! I know I'm a bit of an odd fish being an extrovert and autistic. I think it's 50:50 introvert/ extrovert with folks I know who have ADHD. I love people and seeing things and going places. I tend towards sensory seeking in many way. But I then burnout my social and sensory battery.

Your description just reminded me of me in some ways. I also am aware I can be a bit of a PITA unintentionally. My DH says I can often be intense - describing me as similar to a very excited 8-year-old that has just learned a thing and needs to tell everyone - which is a pretty accurate description! Having been on the recieving end of some unkindness in the last for this, I often preface/ slip into convo that I am ND. Especially now there is greater awareness of ND conditions.

I am diagnosed - ADHD as a child (but no help given as I was considered acamdeicly able and the only options they had were ritalin in the 1980s/90s which my parents and GP thought was not the best option for me) and dyslexia and Asperger's in my early adulthood. I understand a bit self diagnosis, given crazy waiting lists/ sometimes unaffordable costs for private. My parents (both 70s) have twigged they are ND but not sought formal diagnosis as they are both retired/ can see no benefit. Though they do both now aspects of their own lives better on reflection. I do think there is a lot of value in seeking a diagnosis (even if a slow road) if you are of working age though. Some larger workplaces will pay for a general neurodiversity assessment if suspected via occ health.