AIBU to be upset - comment at Ru Paul’s Drag Con …

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Before anyone has a moan about drag in general, please don’t, the post isn’t about that…

I’m a fan of Ru Paul’s drag race UK. I love seeing all the effort that goes into the make-up looks and I admire the creativity of the outfits. I also enjoy the behind the scenes footage of the contestants as they make friends and share their experiences.

DP got tickets to Drag Con for Xmas - an event which is a combination of shows, catwalks and meet/greet. I hadn’t asked to go and I was a bit reluctant. I’m fairly shy.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we went and it was fun. As we were leaving I spoke to one of the performers and gushingly said how amazing I thought their dance routine/song had been (the only person I’d spoken to during the event except DP)… they really are incredibly talented. Their reply seemed very heartfelt and was something like… ‘oh that’s so sweet of you, thank you’, followed by an air kiss/hug… then they said ‘get your hair done’, as if under their breath but really very much out loud, to a group of people nearby who’d seen us speak and clearly knew the comment was about me. It was greeted with much laughter.

I felt (and still feel) so upset. Partly because it was a bit of a shock but partly because I know it’s true. I’m relatively pretty but I’m just a mum, wasn’t wearing jeans/anything really scruffy and I’m not particularly polished (and my hair probably could do with being done!).

I turned away so nobody could see and promptly burst into tears. Now I can’t stop thinking about it and feel so upset.

YABU - why be upset - it’s just a stranger making some throw away remarks to have a laugh, brush it off, it’s funny (and you’ve just said it’s true!)

YANBU - I’d be upset too

I’m very much a ‘live and let live’ kind of person, but I do agree. I find drag quite insulting as a woman.

Drag is misogynistic. He's not going to be kind to you.

You should have ripped the wig off his head and said something similar to him.
Not that I would have, I probably would have cried too.

Oh good. Another trans debate on mumsnet. No one saw that coming, did they?

Deep sigh. Huge eyeroll.

"I can't get my hair done now, I'm saving up for tits like yours".

@Ladybrrrd There's a good article in Vice (I think) which interviews DQ and asks them why they do it. Mocking women does NOT come up. Expression does. Equality does. Liking shiny things does.
drag queens do not wear sparkly things and heels because they think women like that. It's because THEY like sparkles and heels and having a feminine silhouette

Not read that article, but yes, when I watch Drag Race UK I find it really interesting listening to their stories and life experiences when they get chatting in the Werk Room - they see it as a form of expression, feeling more able to be their true selves (annoying phrase but can't think of a better one right now!) nothing to do with mocking.

This is an example of 'fuck about and find out'. Sorry you had a rough time and found out, but these men are horrible and you've contributed to funding that.

@PrimalLass ooh nice bit of victim blaming there.
Drag artist was an arsehole to OP, you basically reply with what comes across as "well you were asking for it going there in the first place"
Well done, bravo, go you 🙄

If the OP likes drag, usually laughs at this when it's other people, and paid to be there, she's a disappointed consumer not a victim. This is what she paid to see.

I get that it's upsetting and that's because it's horrible when men speak to women nastily. Hence why I'd never give them any time or money.

I spend most weekends on the LGBT+ 'scene'.

And so what are your thoughts about lesbians being called hateful bigots for not wanting to include people with penises in their dating pool?

And so what are your thoughts about lesbians being called hateful bigots for not wanting to include people with penises in their dating pool?

It's never come up. If it was a regular occurrence then sure it wouldn't be nice, but funnily my lesbian and trans friends in real life manage to get along just fine. I've turned down trans women before (and other people!) and... nothing happened. Because in real life what people do if someone asks them out is say 'yes' or 'no' without making references to their genitals, which are none of my business.

This myth that trans people are running around shouting at lesbians who won't don't date them is a symptom of terminally online behaviour.

but funnily my lesbian and trans friends in real life manage to get along just fine. I've turned down trans women before (and other people!) and... nothing happened
😳 😬

Because in real life what people do if someone asks them out is say 'yes' or 'no' without making references to their genitals, which are none of my business
Exactly, if you don't want to date someone you just say no thank you.
like you would with anyone, you don't have to justify yourself or give reasons why you don't want to go out with them!
Anyways this is about drag, not turning down people who are trans if they ask you out

So if TWAW, and it’s ‘hateful’ to define women as adult human females, how are women - for whatever reason - able to organise female-only events?

For example, lesbian dating events for biological women only, e.g. the likes Jennie Watson’s speed dating event, where even obtaining a venue for biological women only, can be problematic?

How is the ‘cotton ceiling’ even a term, if transwomen are absolutely fine and dandy with being turned down by lesbians?

This is a thread about drag and I don’t want to derail, but with L and G family members and friends, the homophobia inherent in gender ideology bothers me as much as the misogyny does. Everyone is being thrown under the bus by this ideology.

For the millionth time, this thread is about drag, not trans women.

Apologies for contributing to the derailing.

Off to bed now.

Don't forget RPDR UK vs The World starts Feb 9th luvvies!

Toodles!

@Ladybrrrd ooh thanks for the heads up, didn't realise!
Missed the last series of Drag Race UK (watched the first couple of episodes but that's it) as work shifts and was never home on time.
Doesn't quite hit the same if you're watching it at 10am in the morning with your cup of tea thinking about how you have to start getting ready for work soon 😁
Can't relax.
Will try to watch that one more

For the millionth time, this thread is about drag, not trans women.

For the millionth time, according to Stonewall and gender ideology, men in drag ARE trans women. And I find that stupid and offensive, and I think part of the reason drag has become so much more offensive is because it has become more misogynistic through its recent association with gender ideology which is extremely misogynistic.

This link isn’t something people are making up for fun. It’s a link espoused by stonewall and TRAs themselves.

OK, so as ever, so answer to that.

Can you post a link to that please? I can only find very old sources and animations that originated from Tumblr.

This current stonewall link includes cross dressing under trans:
https://www.stonewall.org.uk/list-lgbtq-terms

however it is true that the trans umbrella graphics that specifically include drag are not sourced from stonewall 9or not on its site currently), but from other gender ideology sources such as The Gender Book, and that includes the purple one that’s been discussed on mn before.

this article explores it and shows that drag has been included in “trans” in some sources since the 90s:
https://womenspeakscotland.com/2021/06/23/the-trans-umbrella-is-older-than-you-think/

this one is from aclu:
https://www.governor.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt336/files/documents/20200810-palana-belken-pronouns-aclu.pdf

however I do see that the OP said not to wang on about drag so I apologise. I suppose it was inevitable on the thread and the reason I did was that I think drag has changed as part of the gender movement and that has a lot to do with why this person was so mean to her. But I will stop now.

Thanks for this. Granted I am reading on a bus but there is zero mention of Drag, and cross dressing isn’t Drag either. So the previous PP who keep using Stonewall having Drag snd trans under the same umbrella as a reason to start talking about trans woman is incredibly misleading and a huge derail.

cross dressing isn’t Drag
but drag is cross-dressing.

PP who keep using Stonewall having Drag and trans under the same umbrella as a reason to start talking about trans woman is incredibly misleading
Trans is misleasing? Say it aint so!

Yes, stonewall’s current info only includes cross dressing but the gender umbrella graphic specifically including drag is common from multiple other gender ideology sources - and aclu which isn’t a gender organisation just a right-on woke one. I don’t think it’s that simple though - there’s also a wider cultural effect whereby drag has become “cool” and mainstream and attracted misogynistic men just as being trans has, and they are interrelated. Anyway, sorry OP.

I mean tbf I think blanket terms are actually hugely harmful to trans folks because the distinction between a trans person and someone who dresses as the opposite sex for sexual kicks has become blurred because of it. It used to be quite clear, and where I (as someone who is supportive of trans folks) think self ID becomes an issue.