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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to be upset - comment at Ru Paul’s Drag Con …

401 replies

13umpuu · 14/01/2024 22:15

Before anyone has a moan about drag in general, please don’t, the post isn’t about that…

I’m a fan of Ru Paul’s drag race UK. I love seeing all the effort that goes into the make-up looks and I admire the creativity of the outfits. I also enjoy the behind the scenes footage of the contestants as they make friends and share their experiences.

DP got tickets to Drag Con for Xmas - an event which is a combination of shows, catwalks and meet/greet. I hadn’t asked to go and I was a bit reluctant. I’m fairly shy.

Anyway, to cut a long story short, we went and it was fun. As we were leaving I spoke to one of the performers and gushingly said how amazing I thought their dance routine/song had been (the only person I’d spoken to during the event except DP)… they really are incredibly talented. Their reply seemed very heartfelt and was something like… ‘oh that’s so sweet of you, thank you’, followed by an air kiss/hug… then they said ‘get your hair done’, as if under their breath but really very much out loud, to a group of people nearby who’d seen us speak and clearly knew the comment was about me. It was greeted with much laughter.

I felt (and still feel) so upset. Partly because it was a bit of a shock but partly because I know it’s true. I’m relatively pretty but I’m just a mum, wasn’t wearing jeans/anything really scruffy and I’m not particularly polished (and my hair probably could do with being done!).

I turned away so nobody could see and promptly burst into tears. Now I can’t stop thinking about it and feel so upset.

YABU - why be upset - it’s just a stranger making some throw away remarks to have a laugh, brush it off, it’s funny (and you’ve just said it’s true!)

YANBU - I’d be upset too

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 17:01

Some people can't tell the difference between drag, trans women and the gimp man

Yep I mean WTF 😁

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:02

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 16:59

Ok I'm getting whiplash now trying to keep up with the goalpost movements 😁

Nobody was talking about gimp men or without consent, nobody's said that's Ok, we're on about drag!

You basically asked when is agp OK. That's the line. When others are involved without consent. Drag is fine as we all know they are a man and it is an event. Not too different from women wearing heels, nice underwear etc. Well a bit more but who knows, we can never be in someone else's mind.

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:03

I mean, it is mumsnet so any excuse to drag in the old transphobic chestnuts and flog them like a dead horse, i suppose.

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:03

Wow people really can't keep up with some quite basic discussion.
No wonder they believe what they do. I'm out 🤣🤣

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:04

@Boomboom22 No one is talking about AGP except you.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 17:06

You basically asked when is agp OK. That's the line. When others are involved without consent

No I didn't.
I asked even if some drag queens do feel sexy when they dress up, what's wrong with feeling sexy?
Or did you mean by consent that they shouldn't be allowed to dress up in public in drag as you don't consent to them doing so?

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 17:07

@Boomboom22No one is talking about AGP except you

Exactly! Everything AGP to some posters it seems, even people just dressing up in drag and feeling good about themselves when they do.

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:08

There's no point engaging with you. You can't follow a basic thread, you are either lying disingenuous or genuinely stupid. Any mean it's not worth my time anymore.

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:09

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:08

There's no point engaging with you. You can't follow a basic thread, you are either lying disingenuous or genuinely stupid. Any mean it's not worth my time anymore.

You're the one who decided to drag in some (debunked) transphobia which has nothing to do with the thread then bang on about gimp men.

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:10

This reply has been deleted

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NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 17:10

*There's no point engaging with you. You can't follow a basic thread, you are either lying disingenuous or genuinely stupid. Any mean it's not worth my time any more

😂 You got the first bit right as in no point engaging with you at least. We'll agree there at least.

Any mean it's not worth my time any more
Bye then

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:12

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PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:20

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Interesting how a dislike of drag and a dislike of trans people often seem to go together.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 16/01/2024 17:22

Interesting how a dislike of drag and a dislike of trans people often seem to go together
Yes, this

SuperGreens · 16/01/2024 17:31

Probably because both are an utter piss take, with one we are supposed to believe a woman is some kind of sex neutral state of mind that men can now embody (and even exemplify), and for the other we are meant to find the mockery and clownification of women somehow entertaining (by the people who oppressed us for 1000s of years).
Id put it down to jealousy OP, you are naturally beautiful without need of all the artifice, smoke and mirrors, and that's rubbed his nose the wrong way.

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:32

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:20

Interesting how a dislike of drag and a dislike of trans people often seem to go together.

I don't dislike trans people in general, and haven't suggested that I do.

Many of them - especially impressionable young girls, these days - are unfortunate victims of the misogynist trans activists.

But yes, a dislike of the woman-face culture of drag queens, and that of straight male autogynephilia, is to be expected of anyone who stands up for the rights and dignity of women.

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:33

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:32

I don't dislike trans people in general, and haven't suggested that I do.

Many of them - especially impressionable young girls, these days - are unfortunate victims of the misogynist trans activists.

But yes, a dislike of the woman-face culture of drag queens, and that of straight male autogynephilia, is to be expected of anyone who stands up for the rights and dignity of women.

Edited

You don't dislike trans people but you're perfectly happy to parrot a bunch of anti-trans soundbites.

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:38

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 17:33

You don't dislike trans people but you're perfectly happy to parrot a bunch of anti-trans soundbites.

You're the parrot in this sketch I'm afraid. 😂

And though you may not be quite dead, you're clearly pining, so I'll leave you to your well-rehearsed deceits.

senua · 16/01/2024 17:40

That quotation from Fitzhugh Brundage seems to be garbage. Is there any research or evidence or is it just him making up stuff as he goes along?

Even if drag were harmful, its impact on American perceptions of women has been so negligible relative to that of blackface that any comparison is foolish.
Even if!!!??? And if it is, it doesn't count. This sounds so familiar...

drag is performed by a marginalized group who are subject to fear and repression,” Brundage said. “To be a drag queen is not an act of privilege. It’s just not comparable.”
That famously underprivileged group: men, who get paid to mock women.

Milange · 16/01/2024 17:45

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:32

I don't dislike trans people in general, and haven't suggested that I do.

Many of them - especially impressionable young girls, these days - are unfortunate victims of the misogynist trans activists.

But yes, a dislike of the woman-face culture of drag queens, and that of straight male autogynephilia, is to be expected of anyone who stands up for the rights and dignity of women.

Edited

You felt the need to pop up and point out not all gay men like drag, the other poster shouldn’t speak for gay men etc, but then you go on and mansplain ‘women’s dignity’ to a woman.

SpeedyDrama · 16/01/2024 17:45

TommyNever · 16/01/2024 17:38

You're the parrot in this sketch I'm afraid. 😂

And though you may not be quite dead, you're clearly pining, so I'll leave you to your well-rehearsed deceits.

There’s no point engaging with some about the issues around current trans ideology. It’s very much a fundamental belief system at this point and there’s no deterring some from their very highly held views no matter what black and white facts you present. This thread isn’t about the trans issue though, it’s about men who identify as men day to day appropriating female-hood for cheap jokes and dressing it up as ‘culture’.

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:50

According to the stonewall umbrella drag queens are trans and so is Eddie/ suzie.
Transexual isn't needed anymore. Any dressing as the opposite sex or liking of anything stereotyped fir the opposite sex is trans or non binary or gender fluid
So everyone is actually trans in some way according to the tra's handbook actually.

SpeedyDrama · 16/01/2024 17:55

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:50

According to the stonewall umbrella drag queens are trans and so is Eddie/ suzie.
Transexual isn't needed anymore. Any dressing as the opposite sex or liking of anything stereotyped fir the opposite sex is trans or non binary or gender fluid
So everyone is actually trans in some way according to the tra's handbook actually.

Yes, the same Stonewall that’s trying to eradicate what it means to be same sex attracted, not sure I hold faith in their judgement of anything really.

MySqueeHasBeenSeverelyHarshed · 16/01/2024 18:20

This is the third time I've tried writing this post T_T

I started watching Drag Race because in my early 20s I liked watching America's Next Top Model and Project Runway. I enjoyed the behind-the-curtain look at the fashion industry and the concepts of the photoshoot challenges on ANTM, and as a seamstress I loved watching PR for other talented sewers work with themes and unusual materials. Both of these shows eventually went downhill and became gimmicky and stale.

When Drag Race started, it was a straight up parody of both ANTM and PR with contestants known for playing larger-than-life characters. The producers realized halfway through the season that there were some genuinely compelling human moments to be had when a contestant who had won a challenge involving a HIV charity campaign broke down on stage and revealed that she was HIV positive herself. There was another moment when a contestant who had been openly standoffish and bitchy revealed that she had opened her home to multiple young people who had been kicked out and disowned after they came out. The show is still a parody in many ways but there are moments like these in every season where the personas are peeled back and the real humanity shows through. Sometimes it's handled in a way that feels forced but it varies from season to season.

It's always been a showcase to display some very talented people, if a contestant has a particular skill they will always find a way to use it. Two contestants are classically trained opera singers, one is a concerto violinist, there are multiple stand up comedians, ballet dancers and fashion designers. It's also the only reality show I can think of that has had multiple winners with life-limiting disabilities. One contestant who was battling cancer was given a free pass to rejoin the competition when she felt ready for it, at least two that were injured over the course of the contest were given the same grace.

A lot of the misogynistic language involved in drag culture are holdovers from the ball scene which was largely populated by poverty-stricken young men cast out of their families and often involved in prostitution (someone above mentioned Paris is Burning, see also The Queen for a glimpse into this world) and it is being phased out gradually. Recently a bio queen (as in biologically female) had a frank discussion about the term 'fishy' with another queen on camera and it was for the most part well received (the other queen was quite young and didn't seem to realize what the term really meant). Speaking of bio queens, there have been three in the franchise as a whole (Victoria Scone on DRUK, Clover Bish on DR Espana and Pandora Nox on DR Germany) who have had a great reception from the fans and all did well on their respective seasons. However, there was some anger from the fans of DR Espana when it seemed like Clover Bish was being subjected to harsher criticism from the judges and misogyny was thought to be the reason, the general consensus is that we want to see Clover on an international All Stars season so that a different set of judges can give her the respect she deserves.

(Clover was one of the queens I met at Drag Con along with her fellow competitor Visa, they were absolutely delightful.)

Throughout the show, many queens have been open about their love and respect for the women in their lives and the women who inspired their drag personas. There have been women brought on the show to take part in makeover challenges (the queens have to create a family resemblance between themselves and the people assigned to them), sometimes relatives and sometimes strangers, and for the most part they have been treated very well. (With the exception of one queen who had a fractious relationship with the relative brought on to do the challenge with her...) This includes butch lesbians, superfans of the show, the female cast of another reality show that all had dwarfism, teenagers and mothers or sisters. There are also challenges that celebrate particular iconic female stars (Diana Ross, Madonna, Lady Gaga, Queen Elizabeth, Celine Dion to name a few...) and a number of women from old Hollywood actresses to up-and-coming pop singers have served on the judging panel. One particular episode had a drag queen performing in front of the pop star that she had based her entire persona and look off of.

I understand the misogyny concerns, I really do, and I'm as hardcore feminist as they come. (Read the SCUM Manifesto many times...) There are times during the show that I roll my eyes at something stupid or reductive being said, and there are definitely some queens that have a warped idea of what womanhood is. My own pet theory regarding the oversexualized drag personas is that these are men trying to emulate what they think straight men want in a woman, or outright parodying this expectation of femininity until it becomes grotesque.

In conclusion, I don't think anyone can write off the show without at least watching a little of it and giving it a chance. It's definitely not perfect and it's not going to be everyone's cup of tea but I do think there's something in it for anyone to enjoy.

PrawnLiberationFront · 16/01/2024 19:36

Boomboom22 · 16/01/2024 17:50

According to the stonewall umbrella drag queens are trans and so is Eddie/ suzie.
Transexual isn't needed anymore. Any dressing as the opposite sex or liking of anything stereotyped fir the opposite sex is trans or non binary or gender fluid
So everyone is actually trans in some way according to the tra's handbook actually.

I genuinely hope you were lying about being a teacher.

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