Help me settle disagreement with DH?

[sssf24]

This is a little lighthearted and obviously not a hugely relationship ending issue, but it's irked me enough to want to post here to gain some perspective.

This afternoon our just turned 3 year old DD was playing with dolls from a doll house, and was role playing mummy had hurt herself. She then said "daddy look after mummy", and role played the daddy comforting mummy etc. I said "aw is daddy going to look after the baby while mummy gets better?" and DD was like yeah... etc.

I then lightheartedly said to DH, who was in the room so overhearing this interaction I had with our daughter: "I think it's important to teach her that mums should be looked after when they're not well too, and that Daddy should step up when mummy is unwell and look after baby... Last think I want for her is to feel the pressure to conform to society's expectations of women when she's older, like I felt" - or words to that effect. But my message being - I'm role playing this with her so she gets the message from a young age about societal imposed gender roles and expectations of women, hoping to dispel some of that for her (if that makes any sense).

DH then commented back "yes but she's barely just turned 3, what's the point?" I replied I didn't think it was ever too young to teach her that she doesn't need to martyr herself as a woman simply because society expects it. I said I thought it was an important lesson, just as important as her learning colours or numbers.

DH then said he didn't think society imposed such messages. I said he was wrong in my lived experience as a woman, and he was invalidating that. I asked him how could he possibly know, as a male, what the lived experience of a woman was? I said he's wrong and society does give such messages to women and that men are generally in a more privileged position in many ways.

He then rolled his eyes a bit and said, "and I'm sure women are more privileged than men too in lots of ways." I laughed and asked him to name one such example before I listed hundreds of examples to support my argument. He replied "well I can't right now but if I did some research I'm sure I'd find a few".

He also then made a (ridiculous in my opinion) throwaway comment that "next you'll be teaching her "they/them" pronouns". I was a bit confused here and replied I wasn't sure what on earth "they/them pronouns" have to do with the message I was indeed trying to convey to her? That part was very odd.

That was pretty much the end of the discussion and although it was a lighthearted back and forth on the back of an innocent interaction with out child, I honestly felt quite invalidated by him, and that he just doesn't "get it". Which makes me sad considering we have a daughter to raise together.

So I suppose my AIBU is in 3 parts:

1. AIBU to feel a bit invalidated as a woman after this interaction?

2. Can anyone shed any light on what on earth the "they/them" pronoun issue has to do with anything I was saying?

3. Is DH correct that there are ways women are more advantages than men in society? If so what are these? (I couldn't bring any to mind and neither could he!)

It sounds like you were being passive aggressive rather than lighthearted with the initial “I think it's important to teach her…” spiel, got his back up, and made him want to be contrary. Having a sociopolitical conversation essentially through your toddler is a bit wrong-footing. Your premise is obviously correct, but the timing and setting weren’t in your favour.

@ComtesseDeSpair
fair enough, I take your point. Thanks for your reply.

Invalidated, lived experience, privilage.....words that convince me this was far from a light hearted discussion.

A 3 year old isn't a prop for a conversation like this.

I will say however that I began the conversation very much in a lighthearted manner - when I said "i think it's important to teach her...". It became less so as the conversation progressed because his responses annoyed me. But I do take your point on board.

Yeah by the time I was using those words later in the discussion, I wasn't feeling very lighthearted anymore as his replies had irritated me. I was initially in a lighthearted frame of mind however.

Agree with pp.

Your telling him what you were doing implies "I don't want our daughter to have to martyr herself on the pillar of womanhood like I do. I'd like her to have a husband who is there to have the baby and look after the Mommy automatically, unlike you. I don't want her to suffer for being a woman like I do thanks to you".

So his back is already up. You're basically takin your 3 to don't pick ashit man like I did.

No he won't see the same injustices to women you do, but criticizing him via the child isn't the way to sort it. He obviously feels he treats you fairly, you don't. Tackle it at the time.

The pronouns is just for him another example if grown up stuff she's too young for.

Anyone see the relevance of the "they/ them pronoun" comment?? I didnt understand that or how it related to anything I was saying.

Thanks @SleepingStandingUp

I can see how it was received in that way. I honestly wasn't criticising him directly. He's mostly great actually, he pulls his weight. But yeah, I can see how he took it that way.

I feel sorry for your DH.

I guess the only loaded advantage is maternity leave / parenting stuff. Up until recently Dad's got a week or so and we're expected to not bother themselves until graduation. Great for some, but not all men are indifferent. If you're a man who wants to stay home with the kids, have every sports day off etc it's getting more acceptable but it still isn't as ok as I'd you are a woman. Obc it's a double edged sword

Also some careers. Male paediatric workers - nurses, nursery staff, primary school teachers. Massive massive stigma. Male nurses told they're not allowed to provide intimate care for children because they're male, questioned on their sexuality because a GAY man is even worse apparently. Obv there's career issues for women too, but different and much more openeess about it being to change

I imagine he'd lost the will to live with your ridiculous passive aggressive shit, so he just chucked anything at it

Really....what's the MATTER with you? Lighthearted my floof 🙄

Because.....?

Interesting points I hadn't thought of! Thank you

You were teaching her a femininst viewpoint that he felt she was too young to understand. I think he used that as another example of something that should also be respected but that was age inappropriate too (in his opinion).

As the mum of boys there are lots of programmes for graduate opportunities specifically for women which may look like privilege but are there to redress the balance/inequality in some industries but in others (eg. law where there are now more women solicitors than me) it is out of kilter

@Bestyearever2024

Thank you for your balanced, calm and constructive contribution to the conversation. 👍🏻

It sound like he was feeling that you were picking at him a bit - does he look after you if you are sick? And trying to make you feel bad for making him feel bad.

the pronouns stuff i would hazard a guess at being an attempt to say that your new fangled ideas “the whole idea of feminism and equality” are a fad/woke so you’ll be talking about trans to her too.

Thank you! Interesting points

HTH

Slightly sidestepping the issue...

This afternoon our just turned 3 year old DD was playing with dolls from a doll house, and was role playing mummy had hurt herself. She then said "daddy look after mummy", and role played the daddy comforting mummy etc. I said "aw is daddy going to look after the baby while mummy gets better?" and DD was like yeah... etc.

If the 'daddy look after mummy' was initiated by your daughter then that is a really positive sign that she is mirroring what she has experienced, ie she thinks it is normal that daddies will look after sick mummies and the babies.

I think the fact that he said he'd have to go and research the ways that women are more privileged just proves that they actually aren't, but, back on the topic, it was perhaps a bit clumsy and OTT way to get your point across.

I think he knew it was basically true and then was upset that he knew he thinks like that so tried to muddy the waters with trying to label your thoughts as “snowflake woke shit” and put this with pronouns stuff that he also seems not to think aren’t valid either. I think it was one of those moments when daddy realises he’s not that great a dad but goes on the defensive rather than admit it.

In my experience with dh and ds, often when dd and I are talking about the experiences of women - instigated by dd, not me I should add - they can take it as a personal attack. There’s a lot of whataboutaty and ‘but not all men…’ etc. We’ve learned to not have these conversations in front of them so as to protect their little egos.

I think you were just verbalising to him what a lot of us do when playing with children. There are meanings behind play and often we are teaching about our values. I think it's a shame that your husband was so sneery about it. His responses make him sound a bit thick really.

And I agree with a pp that his they/them comments were to try and label you as a ‘snowflake’ or ‘woke’ to try and discourage you from making similar points in the future. (I despise both of those words)

You were picking and being passive aggressive. His they/them comment is because he has been defensive and frustrated at the whole parade that was going on, so he's threw something like that in to say jeez she's only 3 next you will be teaching her other things she doesn't need to know yet.

I think you should chill a bit, kindly.

That's a really good point I hadn't considered. Yes, she initiated that so that's a good sign isn't it 😊