Help me settle disagreement with DH?

[sssf24]

This is a little lighthearted and obviously not a hugely relationship ending issue, but it's irked me enough to want to post here to gain some perspective.

This afternoon our just turned 3 year old DD was playing with dolls from a doll house, and was role playing mummy had hurt herself. She then said "daddy look after mummy", and role played the daddy comforting mummy etc. I said "aw is daddy going to look after the baby while mummy gets better?" and DD was like yeah... etc.

I then lightheartedly said to DH, who was in the room so overhearing this interaction I had with our daughter: "I think it's important to teach her that mums should be looked after when they're not well too, and that Daddy should step up when mummy is unwell and look after baby... Last think I want for her is to feel the pressure to conform to society's expectations of women when she's older, like I felt" - or words to that effect. But my message being - I'm role playing this with her so she gets the message from a young age about societal imposed gender roles and expectations of women, hoping to dispel some of that for her (if that makes any sense).

DH then commented back "yes but she's barely just turned 3, what's the point?" I replied I didn't think it was ever too young to teach her that she doesn't need to martyr herself as a woman simply because society expects it. I said I thought it was an important lesson, just as important as her learning colours or numbers.

DH then said he didn't think society imposed such messages. I said he was wrong in my lived experience as a woman, and he was invalidating that. I asked him how could he possibly know, as a male, what the lived experience of a woman was? I said he's wrong and society does give such messages to women and that men are generally in a more privileged position in many ways.

He then rolled his eyes a bit and said, "and I'm sure women are more privileged than men too in lots of ways." I laughed and asked him to name one such example before I listed hundreds of examples to support my argument. He replied "well I can't right now but if I did some research I'm sure I'd find a few".

He also then made a (ridiculous in my opinion) throwaway comment that "next you'll be teaching her "they/them" pronouns". I was a bit confused here and replied I wasn't sure what on earth "they/them pronouns" have to do with the message I was indeed trying to convey to her? That part was very odd.

That was pretty much the end of the discussion and although it was a lighthearted back and forth on the back of an innocent interaction with out child, I honestly felt quite invalidated by him, and that he just doesn't "get it". Which makes me sad considering we have a daughter to raise together.

So I suppose my AIBU is in 3 parts:

1. AIBU to feel a bit invalidated as a woman after this interaction?

2. Can anyone shed any light on what on earth the "they/them" pronoun issue has to do with anything I was saying?

3. Is DH correct that there are ways women are more advantages than men in society? If so what are these? (I couldn't bring any to mind and neither could he!)

...but also slightly surprised at pp thinking that feminism is something that should only be taught to older children. We don't hold off on other forms of inequality such as racism or ableism, so why should sexism be tolerated?

@Bestyearever2024

HTH

Not remotely, even a tiny bit. Many other posters have been very constructive, respectful and helpful however so I'm not too concerned. ☺️

The they/them pronoun thing is because you were using your DD to show how "right on" you were and expecting credit - which is very like people who like to correct each others pronouns. It wasn't lighthearted, your timing was wrong and it sounds tiresome, even if you were right.

You can model good things with DD without adding a lecture.

Don’t use your DD to have a go at your husband. Your feelings are perfectly valid but you need to work them out with him in an adult conversation.

Model good communication skills to your child - don’t bicker over her head.

Ironically I don't buy into the pronoun stuff, I don't label my own and I don't feel strongly about others doing so. DH of course knows my stance on this. I do however feel very strongly about feminism, which he also knows. Hence the oddity of his retort.

Genuinely wasn't using it as an opportunity to have a go at him - I absolutely swear. I've already said he's mostly pretty good, pulls his weight etc. more so than many of my friends husbands tbh. It genuinely was a lighthearted comment initially, I was smiling and just being very neutral etc. his responses got my back up, and that's when how I felt changed.

""I think it's important to teach her that mums should be looked after when they're not well too, and that Daddy should step up when mummy is unwell and look after baby... Last think I want for her is to feel the pressure to conform to society's expectations of women when she's older, like I felt""

^ this comes across as quite passive aggressive and probably put him on edge right from the start.

There's nothing wrong with teaching your DD about good role models but don't then use that conversation to bash your husband and make snide remarks about men in general. It's not fair on either of them and actually puts him in a really awkward position imo.

If you have an issue with your how your husband treats you then that's a conversation that needs to happen in private.

dads should not wait until mum is sick to look after the baby. it's a joint role. I actually think you were just thinking out loud and he comes across as a bit entitled tbh. It's easy for him not to think about it too much as a member of the oppressor class.

I feel sorry for your child. Trying to play but having to witness this silly bickering between her parents!
Your daughter was already role playing the message you want her to have by the sounds of it, and that is an important message for her to receive, but I think the way you've gone about it is wrong. She is only 3. The message to her could have just been we all look after each other when we are poorly/hurt.
And it does sound like you were being passive aggressive towards your husband so it's no wonder he fought back.

"Is DH correct that there are ways women are more advantages than men in society? If so what are these?"
For example, care and activities for parents with young children are hugely targeted and favour mothers instead of fathers. Even in the name, it's often "mother and baby groups". Baby changing facilities in ladies public toilets but not in the men's. Etc.

There's also that women are much more likely to receive mental health support than men. Both within society, from friends and family, and medically.

So that's a couple of areas that spring to mind.

Why turn your parenting approach into a battle and a struggle? Much better to work together.

It's easy for him not to think about it too much as a member of the oppressor class.

Yes. This is how I also feel about it. No need to consider the lived experience of woman because he isn't one. That's what got my back up. Even if he said yeah I get that's your experience, sounds really shit, or something similar. Rather than, no I don't agree and I'll go and google some reasons why you're wrong. Very invalidating.

Although I'll accept that the context of my raising it wasn't the best, the point remains that this attitude has somewhat irked me.

Although I'll accept that the context of my raising it wasn't the best, the point remains that this attitude has somewhat irked me.

But that's probably why he had an attitude in the first place - it really did sound like you were using your DD to have a dig at his parenting/caring skills.

I feel sorry for your child.

Please don't waste your pity on a very much loved, educated, bright, and happy little girl. I assure you she had all she needs and more in our family.

Imagine if he’d been playing with DD and the dollhouse and role playing mummy and daddy going out for a meal and mummy paying and then turned to you and said “I think it’s important to normalise women opening their purses and paying the bill in the restaurant, women need to step up financially too, there are too many societal expectations on men being providers.” In the context, would you honestly think that was a lighthearted, neutral exchange, or would you feel as though he was trying to make a passive aggressive dig at your financial contribution in the relationship, which would set the tone for your response and the progression of the conversation?

I wasn't, as I've said repeatedly

BUT (as I accepted a few posts back) - I'll admit the context and setting wasn't ideal for that discussion

@ComtesseDeSpair

Honestly? It would hugely depend on his tone and facial expressions when he said it. If he said it whilst laughing and using a tone that I know to be lighthearted - having known him as long as I have - I'd have thought nothing more of it.

He interprets theythem as an assault on the patriarchy and hence an outgrowth of feminism. Not understanding that the theythem fashion actually shores up the patriarchy by distinguishing between non binary pick-mes and the humble rest of us who are assumed to seamlessly slot into gender stereotypes.

Yes, I know you weren't - but if that's how it came across IRL (like it has to many posters) that probably explains his attitude.

People don't like feeling attacked, especially in front of their children or other people - I know when it happens to me I automatically get defensive and argumentative.

Also, I earn more than he does so that comment wouldn't make any sense for our particular set up and I'd know it couldn't possibly be a dig at me personally. Just as I'd hope he knows I value his input to the family and how much he does for us (relative to some of my friends' husbands who are dreadful), so I'd hope he didn't interpret what I said as I dig at him.

Men are at a significantly higher risk of suicide. That's one way I'd say we are at an advantage as women, so there are some examples. Homelessness in men is far higher.

It's probably best not to get into tit for tat with these convos, but he is right as there are valid examples each way :) xx

If he's often making you feel invalidated, there's an issue, but as a one-off, I'm sure it's just one you can let slip :)

@catelynjane

Point taken. And I'll apologise to him later if that's the case as I certainly didn't intend my comment that way. It was a dig at how society is set up in general, not at him specifically.

Right now I can tell you that woman (girls) are implied to be safer drivers, son has passed his driving test this week and immediately everyone has said, glad I’ve got girls. One small female privilege / win.

But to the original comment, I assume he felt that you were having an indirect dig at him and the care he provides you and child.

I then lightheartedly said to DH, who was in the room so overhearing this interaction I had with our daughter: "I think it's important to teach her that mums should be looked after when they're not well too, and that Daddy should step up when mummy is unwell and look after baby... Last think I want for her is to feel the pressure to conform to society's expectations of women when she's older, like I felt" - or words to that effect.

It’s just a bit of an odd thing to have said at all. You womansplained play to him.

DH then said he didn't think society imposed such messages.

Really? It is so exasperating that so many men still think like this. It is invalidating and belittling.

Female privilege - that is typical male bullshit. What it usually means is that they dont have as much automatic priviledge as they want.

You being patronising and passive aggressive to him probably got his back up I’d imagine.