Help me settle disagreement with DH?

[sssf24]

This is a little lighthearted and obviously not a hugely relationship ending issue, but it's irked me enough to want to post here to gain some perspective.

This afternoon our just turned 3 year old DD was playing with dolls from a doll house, and was role playing mummy had hurt herself. She then said "daddy look after mummy", and role played the daddy comforting mummy etc. I said "aw is daddy going to look after the baby while mummy gets better?" and DD was like yeah... etc.

I then lightheartedly said to DH, who was in the room so overhearing this interaction I had with our daughter: "I think it's important to teach her that mums should be looked after when they're not well too, and that Daddy should step up when mummy is unwell and look after baby... Last think I want for her is to feel the pressure to conform to society's expectations of women when she's older, like I felt" - or words to that effect. But my message being - I'm role playing this with her so she gets the message from a young age about societal imposed gender roles and expectations of women, hoping to dispel some of that for her (if that makes any sense).

DH then commented back "yes but she's barely just turned 3, what's the point?" I replied I didn't think it was ever too young to teach her that she doesn't need to martyr herself as a woman simply because society expects it. I said I thought it was an important lesson, just as important as her learning colours or numbers.

DH then said he didn't think society imposed such messages. I said he was wrong in my lived experience as a woman, and he was invalidating that. I asked him how could he possibly know, as a male, what the lived experience of a woman was? I said he's wrong and society does give such messages to women and that men are generally in a more privileged position in many ways.

He then rolled his eyes a bit and said, "and I'm sure women are more privileged than men too in lots of ways." I laughed and asked him to name one such example before I listed hundreds of examples to support my argument. He replied "well I can't right now but if I did some research I'm sure I'd find a few".

He also then made a (ridiculous in my opinion) throwaway comment that "next you'll be teaching her "they/them" pronouns". I was a bit confused here and replied I wasn't sure what on earth "they/them pronouns" have to do with the message I was indeed trying to convey to her? That part was very odd.

That was pretty much the end of the discussion and although it was a lighthearted back and forth on the back of an innocent interaction with out child, I honestly felt quite invalidated by him, and that he just doesn't "get it". Which makes me sad considering we have a daughter to raise together.

So I suppose my AIBU is in 3 parts:

1. AIBU to feel a bit invalidated as a woman after this interaction?

2. Can anyone shed any light on what on earth the "they/them" pronoun issue has to do with anything I was saying?

3. Is DH correct that there are ways women are more advantages than men in society? If so what are these? (I couldn't bring any to mind and neither could he!)

Sounds like something my exh would have got stroppy over. Hated any reference to feminism and when I got my daughter a 'little leaders - bold women in black history' book in the midst of the BLM protests he had a huge go at me and decided he was going to buy some nationalist book about being pride of your country, to counteract my 'woke brainwashing' 🙄

I think it all got a bit unnecessarily heavy for toddler role play.

She'll learn best from the modelling you and her dad do. You shouldn't need to make her play so prescriptive. The tense discussion you and your DH had during this will have overidden any message anyway. She just learnt how you and DH miscommunicate.

I think when you're talking to someone, especially somrone you are very close to, talk to them directly about your opinion, don't use other people as proxies.

Haha, so your son passes his driving test and all your friends have done is bombard you with messages about how much better it is to have daughters? Not a single word of congratulations?

Get better friends. Not every teenage boy is a boy racer for starters, don't they respect the fact you can mould him into a decent person or is he a lost cause now he has a driving license?

Do we write off all males in our lives who can drive? Given the MN policy is to write off all males who can't drive it seems we've come full circle...

Well yes of course they have congratulated him! But as part of discussion over sorting insurance and asking people who they have used etc. It has most definitely come up several times. It’s no secret teen girls have cheaper insurance than teen boys.

OK , apologies, thats not how your original post came across.

Especially witnessing petty rows over her dolls by her parents!

Especially witnessing petty rows over her dolls by her parents!

Who said there was a "row"? I said disagreement. There were no raised voices nor hostility. All of this was said between us in normal, calm tones of voice. The content of which at age 3 she did not understand.

Yeah. I see your point. How highly damaging to her to witness an interaction between her parents in a normal tone of voice.

"Like sure this happened on the Titanic...but it's absolutely not a lived experience of anybody I know or any modern anecdote I've come across."

Just under two years ago the women and children were evacuated from Ukraine while the men stayed to fight the war. It is still very much the default in any dangerous situation.

Parents having a disagreement aka bickering is horrible for the listening child...... believe me!

@kisstheblarney

Please don't project your own experiences onto my situation, which sounds nothing like yours was.

To a small child who could not understand the content of what was being said, due to our tones being neutral and calm, there was no way she knew this was a disagreement.

Bickering and rowing implies anger being conveyed either in tone or body language. It is possible to disagree with someone and have a discussion back and forth, without anger being conveyed in tone.

So you think it's important to teach your small child the requirements that you want, because you think they should start young.

But you don't think having this type of discussion bickering in front of them that they understand?

Ok.....

But you don't think having this type of discussion bickering in front of them that they understand?

What? I don't understand what this sentence means.

There's only so many ways I can say this, and this is now my third attempt. I will therefore ignore any further attempts by you to project your own narrative onto my own situation.

Once again - we did not argue or raise our voices (we never do in front of her). As such, because she is too young to understand the content of the words being spoken, it would have appeared on the surface to be the same as any other verbal interaction between us. It could have for example been the same as us discussion for shopping list yesterday while she was playing in the same room.

I don't have the energy or the inclination to say the above a fourth time.

Eye rolling, laughing at his comments....

Sounds lovely!

@kisstheblarney

Oh yes, I see!! Yes. My daughter is going to be absolutely irreparably scarred for life and deeply traumatised by..... a roll of the eyes that she did not see and, god forbid, the sound of laughter. (🫣😱😨)

We'd best get her booked into therapy now in advance.

It's fine if you think your PA comments in front of her and laughing at your DHs opinion is ok?

How would you feel if he laughed at your opinions during a "discussion"?

Would you in the work place do this? During a meeting if a staff member said something you didn't agree with?

I don't suppose as a one off it'll harm your daughter, but I don't think it's a good habit.

@sssf24 i don’t think you truly understand that you’d have to be some form of robot to have a discussion like this without it being somewhat evident regarding your tone, body language or words used for it not to be clear it’s a disagreement.

Children pick up on a lot of cues that are non verbal.

I agree that @kisstheblarney is being a bit ott here and clearly is jumping a bit due to her own past. But she isn’t wrong that kids will and do pick up on this stuff.

If anything it’s almost YABU for just being all pleasant about it. Your DH was being a massive prick, and based on your comments you just nicely talked about it. No no no

I actually was t taking about my past, it's was witnessing my niece and nephew in laws with their parents!

Please don't assume!

You sound like you have swallowed the ‘progressive’ dictionary. Anyone’s who uses the words privileged and lived experience basically sounds like an idiot. They don’t have a point to make. They just want to virtue signal.

@Annacondas

Not some form of robot, just very skilled at keeping my true feelings hidden if the situation demands it. And for very good reasons. Trust me on that. My daughter saw and heard nothing but a verbal exchange between her parents, something she sees multiple times a day, every day.

Yes, he annoyed me, and that's precisely why I posted here. Because I wasn't able to have it out with him properly at that time. I'm able to contain my feelings in any given moment and not allow others to necessarily see how I feel there and then if it's not appropriate at that time. It doesn't make me a robot, just skilled at containment of emotions.

None of that is to say I don't have more heated disagreements with him when my daughter is not around, of course I do, I'm only human.

But to imply on the back of my post that my daughter is likely to be negatively affected by this fairly innocuous and neutral interaction is just utter projection.

Laughing at his comments showed derision in front of your daughter.

I didn't post that voices were raised, I didn't say that insults were flying, or worse, physical things being thrown. Those are the things that are damaging for children to witness. Not a discussion in calm voices where there's a difference of opinion. That's normal.

@sssf24 certainly sounds a bit robotic.

containing emotions isn’t healthy. It’s also not going to be a positive thing for your DD

Neither is mummy just sitting pleasantly whilst daddy makes sexist remarks.

Your DD will be negatively impacted by this interaction, one way or another.

Laughing at his comments showed derision in front of your daughter.

Well it depends doesn't it?

"Hahaha what an idiot you are!" in a sneery tone, yes, not pleasant.

"Haha, what?! Really?" in a neutral tone whilst smiling, no, not so much.

She's 3 years old. She doesn't understand. Laughter to her is, well, laughter.

I think your initial comments reinforce gender stereotypes and roles/expectations.
You were telling her that Daddy only looks after the baby when mummy is ill....how is that helpful?