Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

It depends on the child.
DD was parented worss than DS, she was excellent from very early on.
DS has all the time in the world, I'm calmer, he should be the well behaved one... nope. Not at all.

Kids will be kids I say, but if they're creating issues in restaurants, find somewhere they're less likely to "stand out"

Personally those ages in a supermarket unless a quick dash is tricky.
Firmly before tell them what you want them to do.
Sit in the trolley/ hold my hand.
Change the rule to no running indoors and enforce it.
Meal times always at the table at home and out
Calm voice ,no shouting

There is a mid way between doing nothing/ bribing and shouting your head off.

Children aren naughty , they are just trying to communite that they are not happy or comfortable.
In your case it could have been they needed to run around in which case playground or park were better places for them to be at rather than a cafe. The supermarket/shopping centre could have been overwhelming for them, too much noise, people, new things to do etc.

....."I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore."
**
and that's why they do it

Of course you don’t want to “give it air time” because that would mean taking responsibility for what you’ve done, and you won’t.

You’ll just blame your kids and say they’re naughty rather than looking at why they’re actually behaving as they are.

Most children will tantrum, it’s inevitable, but how you deal with them is what’s important.

Dealing with them appropriately means you’ll see less of them and they won’t be as intense when they do, because you’ll have taught them how to cope.

You are giving in, so you have rewired their brain and taught them to scream to get what they want and now are confused as to why this happens 🤔

I'm not going to trawl though all the posts because threads like this are a magnet for bullies.

@Jingledog the main thing I'd say here is to try to remember that in children, all behaviour is communication. Your children are telling you they are bored, excited, anxious etc in the only ways they know how. They should never be punished for communicating.

Restaurants are for grown ups and are insufferably dull for small children. I think you're on a hiding to nowhere taking preschoolers to what you hope will be a sociable lunch.

You have a lot to manage and I'd be trying to make it as easy as possibly by buying groceries online (or going alone when you can) rather than dragging little children with me, limiting catch ups to picnic-style occasions in good weather or at each other's homes, and getting the children to be physically active early in the day. That will help them feel calm.

Believe what the nursery says about your little boy being kind and well behaved. I'm sure he is.

So often we as a society expect children to be mini adults rather than the very small civilians-in-training that they are.

And we are also very judgmental of mothers dealing day in, day out with what is largely a thankless and tiring life.

Hang in there, it will get easier.

Firstly, get your shopping delivered or do click and collect. Never take toddlers food shopping...!

Secondly, put together a small activity bag of fiddle toys, tiny colouring, squishies, and snacks- whatever your kids like and take that with you to restuarants etc. You need to arm yourself. Kids this age are ruthless...!

This is ridiculous … children can be taught to behave, parents have lives too.

Thank you everyone. I agree more no means no and boundaries put in place - some good tactics shared.
I was frazzled when I posted earlier, tomorrow is a new day and a new week and I will take the useful comments on board and apply them going forward ❤️

I saw a woman in tears recently out shopping with kids of your age - simultaneous tantrums, and she was pregnant again too. It's not easy.

Despite people on here probably disapproving of wrist straps, sounds like your 3.5 yo could do with one outdoors - they usually hate them, so it's an incentive to behave better.

The implications of this are sexist. The best behaved kids I know are a family of 4 boys.

I think it would be wise to limit trips while Op is working on behaviour@redxlondon

Online groceries plus pop to a shop for a couple of things, lots of praise for helping.
Lunch out Maccies-quick , go at quiet time
Enforce sitting and no running indoors
Also check
Are they getting enough sleep ?
Work on transitions etc

Oh do behave, as if toddlers never tried to run around in the past 🙄

Of course they did.

They needed parenting then and they need it now.

That will NEVER change, so quit with the ageism.

Difficult to say without witnessing them all the time

Could Be
Lack of boundary's
Bad day
Illness
Growth spurt
Personality of child
Undiagnosed Adhd or asd
Amongst other issues

When
Mine were really naughty I started removing them from the situation but later I found out dd is autistic but we didn't know till late teens so she had many epic toddler trantrums I probably in hindsight dealt with badly.

However we know now and are healing.

I bet her kids act similarly at other times. Toddlers can have good and bad days.

Just try to remain calm and be consistent with consequences.

My 4yo goes through phases of having to help (tap credit card, pack groceries etc) when out and it can be trying!! There's often a bit of grumpiness and tears if he can't do everything he wants because I hurry him along.

Some kids are just like this. Ds1 was always calm and chilled wherever he was. Ds2 was a totally different child! I basically didn’t take him shopping or anywhere inside from when he was 18 months to well past 4! He just couldn’t sit still, and just found it so frustrating to not be able to run around. He’s now 15, and the most laid back teen imaginable.

Hang in there OP, it’s not your parenting, it’s just that some toddlers need more exercise than others!

@Fishlegs thank you, love that your DS I now a super chilled dude 😄

Completely agree with you @TheresaCrowd. Absolutely disgusting ageism being spouted.

For the older one, manage his expectations by explaining beforehand what will be happening. Make sure you don’t make promises you can’t keep, eg about him helping you do every task. Keep it simple and make your expectations clear, eg “We are going to meet Auntie Jane for lunch. I expect you to sit on your chair. I am taking a book/whatever for you to look at. If you behave properly by sitting on the chair and not making a noise, we’ll stop by the park on the way home/whatever. Remember - in the restaurant you need to stay in your seat and not make noise”

You say you don’t want to “scare” them, but you don’t have to. Speak calmly but firmly. There’s no need to raise your voice. It sounds like they’ve got away with this behaviour or had it rewarded and that’s a big part of the problem. It’s your job as a parent to train them about how to behave in public. Some children are easier than others, but you can still do it. I second a wrist rein and/or buggy. One of my DC was in a buggy until 4 whereas the other was only in it till 2.5yrs. Adapt your method to the child, but you need to say it and mean it.

My children were raised before screen time was an option. We had a very strict rule that when we were in pubs /restaurants they had to behave and not spoil other peoples fun. We kept them occupied with colouring, books and various silly word games. In 10 years of taking under fives out I only had to follow through on the threat of 'if you are noisy we will have to go home' once.

As you quite rightly say @Jingledog taking him home spoiled things for me as much as it did for him but it had to be done. It was a big shock to him. We both cried on the way home and the meals we ordered had to be paid for even though we weren't there to eat them but it was a lesson learned. He knew I meant what I said and he was never disruptive at a meal again.

I feel it is hard, my well behaved pre teens were once toddlers and I stopped going to restaurants for ages, they didn't have the patience to sit once my oldest got past 18m, when they got to 3 and 5 I could walk into town with them and friends and they would happily sit and eat nicely, a kids meal mind nothing fancy and we had to eat quickly. They still get bored at restaurants now though, they're super active kids. I didn't let them have screens at that age but I can see the merit of using them if it keeps them still and you need to be there. I think reinforcing expectations regularly is the key and I have left places because of behaviour. I know it says it spoils your day too but that's how they learn and as the adult we can cope with it so do try it if the behaviour is unsafe like what you describe at the restaurant.

Another thing 😂
Try not to think of right or wrong

They aren't deliberately being naughty, they just need to learn when/ where it's OK to run/ where to walk/ sit
Where to speak/ when to sssshhh

It then becomes teaching them rather than discipline
You do have to enforce it but firmly and consistently.
It's much better for children to have clear, safe boundaries than be bribed into being quiet.
That's for church and planes only 😂

Yes it’s normal behaviour OP, but how you react and what you now say and teach them here is so important. You teach them it’s not kind to scare/chase birds. Teach them to be compassionate. Talk to them calmly about how it’s not good manners to do xy and z. I have sons too so I get it, they are full on. When my eldest was almost 2 he tried running around a restaurant but I had to teach him that no, that is no acceptable. I had to take him outside in the end. He’s now 11 and an utter sweetheart. My youngest has sen so it’s been harder but he understands right from wrong (mostly) as I have worked incredibly hard with him too. You’re doing a great job, it’s bloody hard work 💐

I've never used screen time while out and about . If they refused to stop running around we left.

If they refused to hold hands or tried to run off while out they'd have been made to put on a wrist strap/put in the buggy .
One of mine really liked shopping, the orhers not so much! Id only take them if i was nipping in for a few bits , I don't miss the toddler/pre school years

Placidness (placidity?) isn’t necessarily a good sign in children by the way. In some kids it is a sign of trauma. Your kids sound normal (and free!)