Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

All kids have times when they are like this. But if they're like this a lot it maybe suggests a problem.
I'd think carefully about where you go and if it's somewhere they are going to need to sit quietly then prepare them before so they know what you expect, bring something to do (not a screen), ensure they aren't tired or excessively hungry.
Then you need to remind them if their behaviour starts to slide. Be prepared to leave if need be, give a single warning and then if they don't do what they're told leave straight away. They will learn quickly if you stick to what you said.

Ultimately you have 2 young children and you may just need to be more realistic in your expectations until they are that bit older.

But also, assuming what you are expecting from them is age appropriate and they are not tired or hungry, do stick to the boundaries and don't bribe or threaten. There will be crying and complaints but that's normal - children should be allowed to express their feelings about the boundaries you set.

They shouldn't have been running around the restaurant. I have two with autism and ADHD they have never had the chance to run around a restaurant. When they were younger I used to take them to the park or soft play first. So they could run around like crazy as much as they liked. Always took a distraction if going to a restaurant like a small sensory toy or book.

I think that's unfair.
I can still remember what toddlers are like.

I can remember what worked and what didn't.

Children need to know that you won't give in to them. They need to know where they stand. Boundaries are essential for children so that they feel secure.

If the behaviour in your post is representative of their behaviour on a typical day then yes, your kids are naughty (probably because their needs and your needs are on a bit of a collision course in these scenarios).

Things I would have done to guard against the behaviours you have described above:

Saved the supermarket trip for an afternoon. Spent the morning at the park/woods/walking so the kids had burned off some energy. Ensured that they had eaten beforehand, so not hangry. Chatted/distracted them at the supermarket or let the three year old help. Put reins on the three year old so they couldn’t run away.

Ditto with the restaurant - let them burn off energy first, then go to the restaurant. Be prepared to chat/ distract as necessary. If you are with more than one adult you could take the kids outside for a walk or play while waiting for food.

I have had a hyperactive toddler myself (my first was one of those quiet and calm children you can take anywhere. The second, not so much) so I know the struggle.

I'm kids this young I'm also not convinced by the whole don't give in to tantrums. When a toddler loses control it can be about hunger, tiredness etc. Not always a tantrum to get their own way. Make your own judgements, by all means don't give into demands for sweets etc but equally mid morning meltdowns can easily be fixed with a snack. Redirect the tantrum with choices or giving an important job. Of course sometimes you just have to leave them wailing on the floor because they cannot have 10 jars of chocolate spread (or whatever). Again none of it is naughty as such, it's more learning boundaries. A 10 year old throwing a strop to get their own way is very different to a toddler.

@Jk987 I didn't want to give it air time really. My DS always says I love you so much mummy me and the nursery sing his praises for being kind and polite and such a happy boy. He's a bit excitable at times and emotive when striving for independence. Being told I'm a poor parent based on the scenarios I've described is something I guess I should of expected but slightly heavy handed imo

It does sound like there just aren't any consequences and this is working against you. I think you need to make it clear that cafes are not playgrounds and be prepared to back up what you say. It's not good enough saying oh but it ruins it for me if I have to leave. You have to be conscious that not everyone else adores your little darlings as much as you do, and unfortunately sometimes that does mean the moment being spoiled for you rather than the entire clientele of the cafe. If they understand there is a point where if they don't behave then they leave the cafe (and you are prepared to put your own enjoyment aside and back that up) then you will end up with children who learn to behave because they know you mean what you say and that it isn't all empty threats. It isn't like you will have to do this every single time and never get to unwind yourself. They will learn quick enough once they start seeing that their behaviour has consequences.

You really need to put a stop to the running off. What if your DC knocks a waiter over, straining their ankle, so they can't work for a few days? That would be your fault. Would you offer to compensate their missed earnings?
What if they bump into a waiter who is carrying a tray of scalding hot tea, making them drop it? Child is badly scalded, waiter gets a lifetime of guilt. Your fault.
Are you seriously unable to go over to where your DC is, take hold of them and walk them/carry them back?

I think some children are just more laid back and placid than others. It's common for parents to have one of each (one placid, one crazy) and their parenting is the same for both. They sound normal to me.

I would never let a child run in a public restaurant. It's dangerous and anti social .. I wouldn't take them to one until they are old enough to sit still . It's not fair on everyone else .

My son has SN and I didn't take him to things he couldn't cope with until he could . Life is too short !

@RobertaFirmino that's exactly what I did. I just wondered if doing this is the first place was common

On the restraint topic - when my eldest was 2.5 she went through a running off phase. I was using a buggy board for her, youngest was under 1. I'd have to chase her with the pushchair and it was terrible so we got a double pushchair.

I employed the tactic of:

1. Warn her if she ran away she'd be strapped into the pushchair
2. After running away once she'd be strapped in, no messing.

It really didn't take long for her to get the message. Same in a restaurant with a highchair or if I had the pushchair she could just sit in there.

Set the boundaries, be strict, explain it to them before hand. I find this with lots of situations, definite expected behaviour and what will happen if they run away/ misbehave.

Hope this is helpful!

Also our double pushchair has capacity for 22kg per seat. My almost 2 and 3.5 year old both weight under 15kg

@bloodyhellKen22 thank you btw love your username IYKYK 😄

.........I just want to know the one who suggested physical restraint

Strapping a child into a buggy/ car seat/ high chair isn't "restraint" - it's not like handcuffs for an adult.

The above are just methods used by all parents for keeping children safe.

All this ‘they misbehave you punish by going home immediately’ has no one even considered restaurants and cafes are likely quite boring places for very small impulsive children who are clearly very active bodied types to keep their arses glued to a chair for an hour?

Going home (or just getting outside and off a seat/highchair) might be exactly what they want/need. The ‘punishment’ of going home might be the exact outcome the behaviour is trying to achieve, removal from a place that exceeds their current ability to meet social expectations at this time.

I used to think I was The Bestest Parent Ever when my first three little angels would behave almost always impeccably in most situations. Proper fucking smug I was.
Then Number four came and it was like being hit with a train. Completely different, all the parenting strategies of before that had seemed to ‘train’ my kids to be perfect little angels failed spectacularly. Number four was literally borderline feral. The moment she could mobilise it was chaos.

I’d love to go back and have a word with the Smug Me that used to eyeball other parents in the supermarket etc with judgement. I had no idea the battle they were facing if they’d spawned a preprogrammed wild one.

If you have never had chalk and cheese children and experienced how different kids can be in the same home with the same parents and same boundaries and consequences, it’s easy to completely assume it’s ALL down to perfect parenting if your child is easy to manage. But it’s so so much more than that.

OP no your kids should not be wilding it up in a cafe etc but perhaps they just CANT reliably sit still with table based activities yet. Your job as a parent is to know that on the days where it’s a shit show, abort mission, go home! Not as a punishment but because they aren’t regulated enough that day or have way too much excess energy to be cooped up in a cafe. Children aren’t some kind of flatline of mood/capability. Just like us they have days where they can cope better with all the demands of life it’s your job as a parent to monitor where you are at and adjust the day accordingly. You’re not a bad parent and your children aren’t bad. You’re just in the trenches right now and if you have children that are mostly wild rather than only occasionally wilded up, that’s exhausting.

Yes! I often see it happen. Child runs off, adult goes and gets them. You can even use a stern tone of voice - there is a world of difference between being firm or stern and shouty.

As a new parent I’m just curious, what do the royal family do that means their children are so well behaved and boring public events??

Oh yes, totally agree. The more children, the harder it is I'm sure. I guess it means it's even more important to have clear boundaries and consistency - otherwise I'd imagine it would be really stressful to go anywhere!

Bit of both I think, I think they do sound on the naughty end but they're young so you can nip it in the bud. I have 3, 16/14/2.5

My advice would be to make the shop a game, find certain items or colours, take a fun toy strapped to pram if you're still using it. Youngest is currently into pirates so we make everything a pirate treasure hunt.

I wouldn't have allowed getting down from the table in the restaurant in the first place. You need an array of activities ready if you want to eat out. Toys, stickers, books, puzzles etc

@redxlondon yes 😂 apart from Louis of course! They're always one 🤪

*there's

A 3 year old is too young to respond to that kind of punishment. It simply won't work unless as a direct response to them messing with the tv or throwing food around.

Yabu for taking 2 kids that age to a restaurant and a supermarket!
Meet at a soft play next time and leave them at home when you go shopping. Your expectations are unrealistic and they are not naughty.

How do they behave when your husband takes them out, OP?

Normal. Children aren't born knowing how to behave in public and nor do they learn overnight, it's an ongoing process. Can you try and spend some time in public places that doesn't involve you also trying to do other things ie the shopping or talking to a friend, so you can focus on them and teach them? Also try to resist comparing your children - and yourself - to others because it just adds pressure on to you. It can be difficult with one child that age never mind two. I only have the one and always resisted resorting to handing her a screen and it's paid off, but again I was fortunate that I only had the one neurotypical child. I always took other things to entertain her and still often do even it's just some paper and pens.