Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

Sounds normal to me.
I don't think it's reasonable to expect small children to traipse round shops for hours ( obviously it's sometimes necessary, but needs to be kept to less than hour) or to sit still over leisurely meals in restaurants. It's not fun for them or pleasant for the parents, I don't get why people do it. A 30- minute wait for food can seem like hours to a small person, and hanging around chatting is not fun for most of them, and you can find yourself paying close on a hundred pounds for a meal which no-one has enjoyed.
Shopping is not a leisure activity for young children, especially if they are not involved. IME the bigger the shop, the worse it is for kids. They see a sea of legs, it's too hot, and crowds make it worse.
I'd avoid restaurants and shops as much as possible till they are older. Go without them, find alternatives ( takeaways, picnics) but don't put yourself or them through it. If you have to, keep it really short.

You need to decide what's more important, creating firm boundaries and discipline and thus an easier time down the line, or a coffee with your mate but your kids never really learning there are consequences to their behaviour.

It is normal for some children, lots to do with personality but how you handle it is the most important thing

Straps in high chairs/buggies are there to stop them from slipping/falling out and injuring themselves, they are not a straight jacket/restraining device, and dc should still be closely supervised/not left alone while in a highchair, buggy. As soon as I saw ds's hands going towards the clip I distracted/diverted him so he never had the opportunity to learn to unclip it. I also made a point of never showing him when I did it.

Car seats are harder to supervise for obvious reasons and may need additional devices/different seat which is harder to unclip if a child becomes too curious about unclipping them.

@Ramalangadingdong I have often wondered this. Not about this particular friend but other people's children I have witnessed

But 'chasing after pigeons and refusing to come back', and 'running loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs', until they get screen time is ok because they're 'free'

Jesus.

Are you saying you've wondered if other people's well behaved children are showing signs of trauma?

Apologies if I got that wrong, but your reply was in response to @Ramalangadingdong who said it can be a sign of trauma?

Are signs of trauma the new excuse for having badly behaved children?

I think you need to separate out appropriate behaviour for the age and a nearly 4 year old will know not to run around a restaurant. I think there needs to be consequences for both.

They do sound badly behaved yes. Why on earth would you let them run around a restaurant? That’s just ignorant. If they can’t behave, and you can’t parent, then leave. Go be feral in your own home and stop ruining other peoples day!

@Haretodayswantomorrow I had no idea the battle they were facing if they’d spawned a preprogrammed wild one

This made me laugh so much! My firstborn (a girl) was extremely placid and imaginative and could make a plaything out of anything. Perfect child. Second -born was classic ADHD. I remember the loneliness and the judgementalism. Yes, I too spawned a preprogrammed wild one.

We managed by me doing the supermarket shopping while DH looked after the kids after work or at the weekend. We didn't go to cafes or restaurants until DS was older and then we started with McDs and gradually worked up to a very quick-cook café where they had benches and a table in front and he would be wedged in, unable to move - but because the food came quickly, there was little time to be bored. And no lingering afterwards. He didn't want tabletop toys or colouring and if there had been screens, I'd have had no compunction about using them as long as they were on silent or he wore headphones.

You have two close in age and my heart absolutely goes out to you. Yes take on board all the positive and practical comments and ignore the ones from Smug Parents. Our situation got so bad, I asked to be referred to Family Therapy and it was an absolute life-changer as I learned better techniques, such as an old-fashioned star chart which helped. Feeling in control and having a Plan was brilliant.

You are asking for advice now - reaching out to parents who should be supporting you with compassion, because it's HARD

Boggles the mind doesn't it

I know it sounds a bit weird but I speak from my own experience. Some kids are silenced into behaving “well” and it can sometimes be a sign to look out for in kids. I suppose I mean more withdrawn than placid - which some have pointed out can be a character trait.

I know hind sights 20/20, but it would have been better to never have allowed behaviour that has the potential to be a problem in the first place. Of course it's fun to let a three year scan shopping when it's quiet and you've time. But do it once and they want to do it always. Same with getting down from the table in resturants. So I'd say unless you're confident you're always going to be OK with it, save the occasional concessions until they're old enough to understand why it's only sometimes OK and use a hard no otherwise. They'll be some initial tantrums but they learn eventually.

Your kids sound a bit entitled and need to learn how to behave.
And no mine are not perfect they are autistic but still behave more appropriately!

You’ve completely missed my point.

It’s not about age. It’s about doing something a long time ago and having zero awareness / humility about that. You have no recent experience of parenting toddlers and it really shows.

And some boiled eggs are runny and some are not.

🤷‍♂️

I guess some things you don’t allow in the first place like running around in restaurants as it’s dangerous and really unfair to other guests. My brother and SIL allow my nephew to run around everywhere (airports, shops, restaurants) as he says he doesn’t like reigns, or being strapped into the pushchair but it just causes much more trouble for themselves as SIL can’t travel with him alone and her family live abroad. I traveled on trains when mine were little but they didn’t know running up the aisle was an option as they never did it. SiL commented how on a day out at a farm friends child of same age was so good compared to their child, and I guess it’s because they insist on time in pushchair, don’t allow running around (apart from parks etc).

Sometimes some kids are more chilled but if they know they can do it and that you’ll give in if they have a tantrum they will do it all the more. Mine certainly weren’t angels and I stopped taking them to the shops for years. I just did online shopping and grabbed things on way home from work.

Again, more ageist shit.

Kids have always pushed boundaries.

Parents have always needed to nip bad behavior in the bud.

It's been happening since the dawn of time. It's really not new 🙄

I had 3 boys who behaved whe we were out because I set appropriate boundaries, all different personalities but still boys behaving. Sorry to dispel your stereotype 🙄

Are you sure you didn't traumatise them?

Yes.

when I was a kid I was brought up so strictly that I never ran around or misbehaved. It made me a bit compliant in later life, which had its own problems.

There has to be a middle ground where kids are allowed to be themselves but are parented in such a way that makes them respectful of their environment and other people. I have no idea how you do this (child free) so will leave it to the experts.

🤣🤣🤣 No doubt the strange other poster will assume so.

Experience of doing something many years ago vs having current or recent experience is going to be less relevant and recollections will be less accurate. That’s a fact.

The highchair comment is a really good example of this. You 💯 physically could not get a nearly 4 year old into a high chair.

You need to be stricter.
At the moment you are rewarding bad behaviour.
If you are strict for a couple of weeks- with no exceptions they will realise and life will get easier.