Are my kids naughty or normal

[Jingledog]

I have a 2 year and 3.5 year old DS. Went shopping today and the 2 year was in pram wailing until he was given snacks and screeching at top of lungs.

3 year old wanted to do everything tap the card put food in trolley scan items etc when I did some too as he had a meltdown threw himself on the floor screaming and saying mummy I wanted to do it. Same in the next shop then running off after pigeons and not coming back.

Went for lunch ystrday with friend and who has kids same age they sat there nicely next to their parents at the table playing with some little toys and looking at books while mine ran loops around the restaurant cackling at the top of their lungs and wouldn't settle until I resorted to giving them screen time.

I have tried not giving in to them but the tantrums are extreme and long so sometimes give them what they want as my nerves can't take anymore.

Is it the way I've patented or is this normal behaviour?

Are they ALWAYS like this or what it just a bad day? I have 3. 6,4 & 2. Sometimes they’re delightful to take out and other times it turns into a total shit show. But my youngest is by far the most spirited and difficult to manage in settings like eating out. I think she’ll get better as she gets older they’re still so young. I wouldn’t consider her naughty just… into things 😂

Sorry but sounds like your children need more discipline, particularly consequences of their behaviour, so yes that does mean sometimes you need to miss put. Most children would love to run around a restaurant but don't as they understand they can't. It's worth telling them how you expect them to behave before going and what the consequences will be if they don't and then if they don't behave follow through.

We have 5 daughters, all different personaliies, one in particular loves to push boundaries and we have had to keep a real eye on her, still do at 4 in comparison to the otters.

Good luck dont leave it or soften for an easy life. You will regret it when he is older.

I concede it’s strange because most people were lucky enough not to have lived through trauma as children. I wasn’t so lucky, so the idea isn’t strange to me. But I’m taking us off topic and prefer not to go into this any further.

In that case rather than saying it IS a sign of trauma you could have stated that for you personally behaving properly was because you were subject to trauma that made you behave rather than assuming that normal parenting and setting boundaries which is the usual way to have well behaved kids is why those kids were behaving. It's rather too much of a jump to assume any kids who behave must have suffered trauma.

I said that placidity CAN BE a sign of trauma. I didn’t say it IS a sign. Please leave me alone now. What is the point of this?

My real point was that op shouldn’t compare her child’s behaviours with that of her friend’s. What we see on the surface isn’t always an indication of great or awful parenting.

Children need boundaries AND love.

Two things struck me op. Running around a restaurant and chasing pigeons. Neither are acceptable.

Whether it spoils your trip out or not is irrelevant. Two warnings and a consequence - which is home, tantrum or no tantrum. Consequences once or twice lead to better times ahead.

I don't understand why one or both of your children has/have been allowed to chase pigeons. That requires a consequence. I do hope nobody thinks that's acceptable.

Examples of consequences: no sweets, no biscuit, no special TV programme, no screen time, time out, etc.

When I took mine shopping, the deal was if they behaved we might go to Mc Donald's for lunch, have a ride on Thomas, have an ice-cream, etc. If they didn't behave those things didn't happen.

I had one that would sit and one that was a nightmare. One day we just picked the nightmare one up, after she refused to sit still in a restaurant and took her home. She’s now an adult and has never forgotten this. And she never played up again (although it was quite a while before we took her to a restaurant again).

I don’t think it hurts children to be bored for a while. I remember much of my childhood being screamingly dull - visiting elderly relatives and having to sit quietly while the adults talked. If I was lucky, I’d be allowed a book. I’m not saying we should go back to these days, but children should understand that the world doesn’t revolve around them, and there are times when they might need to sit quietly for a bit.

@Illbebythesea they are definitely not always like this and on recollection now there have been times when friends kids have hit and been defiant which mine don't do. I think anyone who has children under 3 and say they never 'misbehaved' because they were strict/good parents are exaggerating slightly. I set boundaries and reprimand unacceptable behaviour and explain why they can't do it. Few things I need to tweak but no one's perfect. Everyday is a school day in this parenting life isn't it 😅

There's nothing worst than children running round a restraunt screaming, it does sound a bit like the children are running rings round you. You might be better meeting friends at indoor play areas untill you get the hang of it.

If you do go to a restaurant then the very small ones need to be in a high chair and the 3.5 child needs to be told to sit down and if good then can have an ice cream but if they don't have their listening ears on then no treat.

Also have you thought of taking something along to keep them distracted? Like colouring book or similar?

@Thegoodbadandugly of course 😃

@Thegoodbadandugly most of the time they are happy with this

If they are ok most of the time then don't worry to much.

They are far too young for screens.
they sound overstimulated and don’t know how to be bored.

Some kids are more active and spirited than others which means they may be harder to control in somewhere sedentary like a restaurant. I have 2 friends with toddler girls the same age, one of them is into everything and the other is more placid.

My ds2 doesn't need as much activity as ds1 does. They are older now (nearly 9 and nearly 6) but I still make sure we do something active like soft play or a bike ride to burn some energy off if I want them to be calm for a couple of hours after. Any bad behaviour is met with age appropriate consequences, my ds2 was playing up in Tesco today so after repeated warnings i didn't buy him the magazine that he'd picked.

But also I know their limits, we can manage a restaurant for a couple of hours but not all afternoon like a group of adults might do.

Your kids are young, I'm still learning, so are you.

All I know is, if I was paying good money in a restaurant and toddlers were left to run around “cackling”, I would be complaining to restaurant management.

If my DC ever misbehaved in a restaurant, he would have been removed after fair warning. Yes it would have spoiled our meal, but failure to parent and control your own kids should not impact on a restaurant full of strangers.

If you were feeling unsure of your parenting OP, I expect you are feeling rather hammered now! I’m amazed anyone would subject themselves to the judgement of this forum but hey-ho, you asked. Have to say I agree with all the posters who advocate consistency and boundaries. I despair at the use of screen time to avoid the difficulties of parenting young children. Yes, it’s hard and boring and often not much fun but it really is short term pain for long term gain. I have three DCs - it was hold my hand or go in the buggy and i would go straight home as a consequence for ignoring warnings and tantruming. Running around in a restaurant. No bloody way! DH and I spent many tedious lunches playing card games, doing stickers etc and reinforcing table manners and it did pay off. We can take them anywhere now and never use screens. I’m sure we’ve failed on other fronts and I do sympathise with you that this is a difficult stage but DO NOT give in for an easy life.

Laughing at the thought of wrestling a 4yo into a highchair! It would have been a tight squeeze. Even if I'd managed to get mine in, I never would have got him out again, short of power tools ...

Helen Simpson has a very good short story about this exact situation in her collection Hey Yeah Right Get a Life. The exhausted, lonely mother is desperate to talk to her friend and feel understood, but their conversation is drowned out by the noise of her 2yo banging on the glass of the cafe display case. I often thought of it during those difficult toddler years. Hang in there OP, it does get better!

This.
You take them outside and sit them down and explain why it's not acceptable and they need to sit still and be pleasant.
Each and every time until it sinks in. It's shouldn't be long if they are of normal development.

This get out clause will give you 10 year olds who can't sit still / are addicted to screens in restaurants.

Start small when they are small.

Her kids ARE perfectly normal. There is nothing naughty in the way they have responded to their parenting.

All children will behave exactly the way they are allowed to behave.

OP has allowed them screens and screams for entertainment and sweets, so this is what they do.

DS is a live wire more so than my DNs, however he doesn't run around in restaurants, cinema, theatre etc because from a very very young age we made it clear what was expected and if he couldn't do that we left. He didn't get snacks or screen time for poor behaviour. He doesn't get small screen time at all and he's just turned five.

We have always made sure we build active things into our days so we walk into town rather than drive, if there's a park where we're going he can play on it (weather permitting) , if we are doing something sedentary or boring in one part of the day we try and offset that, because it's a balance. I recognise his need for activity, but I expect him to recognise the need for behaviour appropriate to situations and environments.

DNs on the other hand more placid characters generally, older one definitely more compliant than DS. They run around restaurants, make noise in the cinema, and they are quietened with screens and snacks. It's just a very simple message about what the consequences to their behaviours are. They misbehave they get snacks and tablets, DS misbehaves he is taken away from the activity.

Well, it seemed to work for my daughter and later on her child. I suppose my message was that if they run rings round you at home why should they be any different in a cafe?

I agree. They ran around cackling because they are allowed to. I can't understand why you wouldn't leave because it would ruin your day out. You could not have possibly enjoyed yourself with the DC behaving this way. You had to have been mortified. Give them the talk before Remove them immediately when acting up.