ANOTHER war. Anyone else feel terrified of what could come

[kuls938x]

Breaking news; UK signing off on air strikes against Yemen. Is this just going to get worse ?

Since having kids this honestly petrifies me. This world is a mess! I feel like it's one thing since another ever since Covid nothing has felt the same at all! Life before that almost feels completely different and a blur ! Anyone else?

but in order to use the collective view that forms your point, then the individual view has to happen originally to then become part of the collective ?

even Ben Shairpo said the war could be over as soon as Hamas surrender

what the papers say, and academic experts say, could be a whole lot different than what the security service know, think tv series spooks as examples of how the spooks know x and the public get told y etc and apply that to real life.

Iran denied involvement and US intelligence suggested that the Iranians weren't aware https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/11/politics/us-intelligence-iran-hamas-doubt/index.html

Hezbollah also said that Hamas didn't tell them https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/israel-hamas-war-gaza-strip-2023-11-02/card/hezbollah-chief-says-he-didn-t-know-about-hamas-attacks-in-advance-631uhOj6FJRjFCKcrjWC - if Hezbollah knew, they'd have probably joined in.

You are right about Iran's nuclear weapons programme, they don't want war until they are ready.

they are hardly going to admit if they did have advanced knowledge etc

As I said, US intelligence suggests that they didn't. And Hezbollah weren't involved, although they did provide support afterwards with rocket attacks.

Hezbollah don't want a war with Israel either.

fair points but we only have the "so called official story to run with" unless we could read eg Cia, Mi5, Mi6, Nsa, Mossad, Files etc then its just taking the stories on faith,

@noblegiraffe
"I thought Iran weren't aware of what Hamas were planning on October 7th and their support has been far more low-key than Hamas were hoping for. Hezbollah have also been a bit half-arsed in their support.

I don't think Iran want all-out war."

+++

It is important to distinguish between controlling and supporting.

To begin with Iran not only supplied weapons and training to its so called "ring of fire" (Hezbollah, Hamas, Houthi, various groups in Iraq etc) but it also had a degree of control over their actions.

But now these groups tend to act on their own but within the general aims / views shared by Iran of hating Israel, US and the UK. As such whilst Iran probably didn't have advance warning of the 7th October attacks they equally didn't mind when they did and the same goes for Hezbollah.

That said by attacking Israel, Hamas has provided a common cause / enemy (Israel/ US/UK) amongst these disparate groups. And the only thing that these groups like more than fighting each other is fighting against the West.

I genuinely don't think Iran has a single master plan or strategy in supporting these groups. But rather that sowing chaos, discord and instability amongst its neighbours is a net win for them because it prevents a stable united front against Iran. In short any instability in the Middle East is a benefit to Iran.

What is a new development is the rise of the "western useful idiots" often wrapped up with conspiracy theory nut jobs that unwittingly or wittingly support this Iranian strategy, who self hate the West but by doing so they are eroding the western values that allow them the freedom of expression in the first place.

But rather that sowing chaos, discord and instability amongst its neighbours is a net win for them because it prevents a stable united front against Iran. In short any instability in the Middle East is a benefit to Iran.

Yes, I think they're happy shit-stirring but they don't want war yet.

Hezbollah have been skirmishing but not really going for it. Escalation may come because Israel assassinated one of their leaders rather than them really wanting to commit. I guess we'll see with the Houthis in their retaliation for having their kit destroyed.

Oh do go away. We aren't discussing WW2, I was responding to another poster, and your comment is simply ridiculous. Where did I once mention good guys or bad guys?

Wtf is wrong with people who feel the need to hijack threads in order to prove the facts and figures they know (or have just looked up)? Bizarre.

Not just human, many animal species are territorial. Groups of unattached male lions will try to take over a pride, if successful they'll evict its own males and kill the cubs.

@ithinkthatmaybeimdreaming

By stating that " the deaths of a few do not justify the deaths of many" you clearly define two sides. Now whether that is between "good guys or bad guys" or bad guys and badder sides" is your own personal view.

Equally your statement that "the deaths of a few do not justify the deaths of many" is inadequate in that it does not take into consideration who the original aggressor was? To take a more recent analogy Russia invaded Ukraine but Russia has suffered more casualties.

Does that mean that Ukraine should not defend itself because " the deaths of a few do not justify the deaths of many" ?

Lastly with regards to your comment:

"Wtf is wrong with people who feel the need to hijack threads in order to prove the facts and figures they know (or have just looked up)? Bizarre."

Rather than "hijacking it is called a fact based counter argument. Without facts or figures you are simply left with an emotionally driven conviction where in a child like way you just try and shout down or insult the other viewpoint.

Sadly this creates a polarisation of views (Brexit is a good example of this) where any common ground or compromise becomes impossible.

I let other people form the stats. In this case YouGov and they say most people in the UK don't support either Israel or the UKs stance.

If you are honestly trying to justify the genocide taking place you need to check your morals.
Go watch the videos coming out of Palestine then tell me 100 days is justified by 1 day.
All israel has done since is bomb hospitals, homes, refugee camps, civilians men, women, children, babies. Have you seen the videos of babies left to rot by israel?
How many of Hamas has israel actually killed?
You do realise this started long, long before 7th october?
You do realise as the occupier israel doesn't even have the right to self defense?
You do realise your goverment along with america is complicit in genocide?

Who do you think the original aggressor is? Are you forgetting this started long long before 7th October

Ahhh Bem Shapiro said well it must be true

Yes because facts and figures cannot be made up.
40 beheaded babies anyone??

Very true, so lets start trading again with Russia & i'm sure NK must have some stuff we need too.
Where do we draw the line.

As for the inflationary spiral, i don't think people realise that its impossible to get shipping insurance for a war zone, the Houthis wont back down, so thats what the Red Sea will become, as we will have to keep bombing, so all ships destined for Suez will have to divert.

I'm hoping that the USA's private message to Iran will have some effect on the Houthis & that this v limited bombing campaign wont continue, if does, then we will see shipping costs rise and shortages for a while.

But we are not trading with Russia, so we need the Red Sea route even more.

What is your issue, exactly, with trying to keep the Red Sea safe from terrorists and pirate?

What would your solution be?

Fair enough about US intelligence (though I think they’ve said they have no direct evidence rather than that they reject Iranian influence on events of Oct 7) but I don’t believe a word said by the Iranian leadership. And there are other, differing well-informed views on the likelihood of Iran’s prior knowledge of Oct 7.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/khamenei-reportedly-told-hamas-chief-iran-will-not-directly-enter-war/amp/

I’d be amazed if Iran wasn’t behind the Houthis’ actions.

I think the key difference between Hamas/Israel and the strikes against Houthi military targets is proprotionality and intent.

They are not the same thing. The Houthi strikes were precise, designed to disrupt the ability of Houthi to attack innocent commerical ships and also military ships escorting them. No civilian casualties. Houthis were also apparently given an offical forwarning from US of impending strikes.

October 7 by Hamas was barbaric and absolutely warranted a response. However, I disagree this response has been proportionate. An unacceptably high number of civilian casulaties and early on, humanitarian aid blocked.

You can't compare the two situations; they might be geographically close and Houthi groups may claim this is in support of Palestine-but that isn't quite true either. Houthi attacks have been somewhat clumsy at times as well-not targeted-to the extent they almost hit a Russian oil tanker and had to apologise.

Houthis are using and manipulation the Israel/Hamas situation as an excuse to make an aggressive move against US/UK/generally the Western world. Houthis do not give a shit about human life-look at their record in Yemen.

The same very much can be said about Hamas-the key difference though is many many innocent civilians have died as a result of Israeli retaliatory attacks-an unacceptable level and it needs to stop.

Nearly everything you've said is wrong. Congratulations

Very true, so lets start trading again with Russia & i'm sure NK must have some stuff we need too.
Where do we draw the line.

We’re not trading with the Houthis. We’re trying to stop them disrupting trade between others.

It won’t be a war zone if countries (mostly the US of course) contain the Houthi attacks and protect shipping.

I had a look for info and this article summed up the capabilities of Houthi and what could be done, but one point that I recall is targeting is a major weakness

The crucial weakness of the Houthis’ maritime strike capabilities is their lack of effective targeting infrastructure. A series of coastal radars were used in 2016 to coordinate attacks against UAE and US vessels in the Red Sea. However, three of them were subsequently destroyed by US strikes, and it is unlikely that the Houthis would use the same tactics again

From an institute looking at detail

https://rusi.org/explore-our-research/publications/commentary/securing-red-sea-how-can-houthi-maritime-strikes-be-countered

@Vegetus Brilliant. Criticise someone, whilst contributing absolutely nothing yourself. 🤣Well played sir.