To think it's tragic if Michael Jackson was indeed innocent

[pregahes]

It's a real shame for someone who created incredible music to have their legacy at risk. It’s just tragic, considering the impact his music had on so many. It's tragic either way, if he's guilty for the victims and if he's innocent for himself.

I'm a huge fan and at one point t thought he was guilty but kore recently change of heart. I think there would be more victims if he weee in fact guilty. Somethings doesnt add up.

It's tragic

I've followed his story from when he claimed nothing f happened til now and I just don't find him credible...because he said too many times nothing happened.

Sorry what?

When he was still young, still in thrall to MJ, still in love with him, he denied the abuse. He wanted to defend and protect him. Then when he was older and was honest with himself he acknowledged and accepted it.

How many women come onto these forums and work through the realisation that an experience or ”relationship” they had as a child was abuse?

And you’re holding denial against him?! Would you hold it against women?

KarenNotAKaren

It pisses me off SO much when people do empty, performative virtue signalling about how awful CSA is, but simultaneously fuel a climate where survivors are less likely to be believed, to even be able to speak about their experiences.

And along similar lines, the BBC doing all its fanfares about Children in Need while continuing to play Jackson’s music is a real kick in the teeth for survivors, especially for anyone who wasn’t believed, and who wasn’t supported.

Particularly given how they protected (and benefited from) Savile for all those years. They knew what Savile was, and they know what Jackson was.

But they won’t stand up for survivors. They won’t actually implement a policy of zero tolerance for child abusers. Continuing to play Jackson’s music shows that you can be a really nasty nonce but still be feted by the BBC and everyone else as long as you never got properly caught. Sickening.

Think it's pretty safe to say the guy was a sex offender

Exactly. There’s still so much ignorance about grooming and the impacts of it, the impact of sustained CSA.

How denial that the abuse is abuse is one of the most common coping mechanisms, if not the most common. How a victim can and will rationalise it in all sorts of ways, or just compartmentalise it, shut it away and do anything but think about it.

Plus there’s the threat I mentioned upthread that Jackson made to at least one of the boys (I forget which), that if he told anyone about the abuse then both Jackson and he, the boy, would go to prison.

OP, is it really so hard for you to see how a child could, in those circumstances, initially lie and say nothing happened? Are you that lacking in empathy or understanding of the human condition, of how it is to be a vulnerable child dealing with things you’re really not equipped to deal with?

@pregahes
I've followed his story from when he claimed nothing f happened til now and I just don't find him credible...because he said too many times nothing happened. It just seems odd to me

Can you really not work out why a child might have been to scared to say the truth? Really? Not even if you think really really hard?

Excellent post.

And don’t get me started on the fact that Sony were the ultimate funders via subsidiaries of the Square One film trying to discredit the survivors. The same Sony that paid not far off a billion for MJ’s back catalogue.

in addition, all of the messages he was getting from the adults around him were that everything is fine, nothing concerning happening.

All of the boys MJ travelled with, slept with were groomed and confused and let down by the adults around them. How many people could have said something and didn’t? Even just by pointing out that it’s fucked up to travel with children, fucked up to have them sleep over.

It’s completely different to a peadophile snatching a child from the street and sexually abusing them. The children MJ abused would have taken their cues from the adults around them, and sadly those adults let them down.

It makes perfect sense that it took a long time for some of them to recognise that abuse occurred.

Oh, come the fuck on.

For those saying the fact Robson stuck up for Jackson initially - my mum asked me outright as a child of I was being abused by the man who was abusing me.

I said no.

Looking back someone finding out scared the shit out of me. I can’t quite explain why it it did - at the time I felt like it would be the worst thing that could happen

Thank you for explaining and sharing. I remember one section in the documentary where Wade Robson mentions that he only realised it was wrong when his son was born because he pictured how he would feel someone doing those things to his son and it made him feel sick.

I haven’t read anything except the OPs posts and few others so this has probably already been said - I had an open mind on him until I watched the documentary - the open mind was because of his acquittal.

Once I watched the documentary I was entirely certain he abused those boys and a key thing for me is that no one has said he had penetrative sex with them. That would be obvious thing to say if you were making it up. Their stories are so consistent and no one claimed to have been raped. He absolutely abused them.

So my BFF is a psychologist who works with adult victims of CSA. She says that her patients almost exclusively come to her after they have their first child. Having children is a big trigger for CSA victims (as it was for me) because for many it’s the first time they can step out their sphere and think “holy fuck I would never want that to happen to my child!” And they have the lightbulb moment.

@Itsmychristmasdress can you be more specific, it wasn't porn I read but artwork and secret rooms I think I'd have if I were famous to be honest - I'd be worried a maid would spy on me or something. And that doesn't mean I'd be doing anything weird but I would VERY paranoid if I were famous

It seems like you want to see the video of those boys being raped before you’ll deign to believe them.

You actually have a nerve to intellectualise in this fashion. You know perfectly well MJ was a paedophile. Him saying my intentions of sharing with those boys were pure, is not reasonable, and it is outrageous that you as a supposedly cool headed adult think his behaviour is not criminal.
put any other man doing his actions and it is obvious.

@Terfosaurus that's the point, wade denied it well into his thirties

@Random30 We are all entitled to our views. I kindly ask that you don't presume to tell me what I do or do not think. Thank you.

@KarenNotAKaren that is interesting and something I would have never considered but it does make sense. When you think about yourself, you (general you) can justify it in your mind but when the thought is of it happening to someone else, it can really hit home. Like you say, it helps a person to have more of an outside view. Hope that makes sense; not sure I've explained myself too well; sorry.

It's fair to say even if you think he's innocent, the behaviour we saw in plain sight was not acceptable

On any level

He definitely slept in a bed with young children, as he said himself, so I don’t know how you can not believe “any of it”

Yes... so why does that mean its not true ?

I'm a very evidence based person, as in physical evidence that can link a person to a particular act without any shadow of a doubt.

Which never exists in sex crimes, so then what? Do you let all the sexual abusers for lack of physical evidence?

That is unfortunately the reason why it very difficult to prosecute these crimes with a lack of physical evidence.

There’s rarely physical evidence in sex crimes and there’s never physical evidence in historic sex crimes. And yet they are prosecuted anyway because the court accepts types of evidence that is not purely physical, unlike you.

"I'm not saying Michael Jackson is guilty. But if I was a billionaire paedophile, I’d buy a funfair for my back garden."

-- Jimmy Carr

https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2016/06/21/items-discovered-police-michael-jackson/

This is the list.....