To think it's tragic if Michael Jackson was indeed innocent

[pregahes]

It's a real shame for someone who created incredible music to have their legacy at risk. It’s just tragic, considering the impact his music had on so many. It's tragic either way, if he's guilty for the victims and if he's innocent for himself.

I'm a huge fan and at one point t thought he was guilty but kore recently change of heart. I think there would be more victims if he weee in fact guilty. Somethings doesnt add up.

It's tragic

Would you allow a pubescent son of yours to sleep in a strange man's bed, or act as a strange man's plus one at public events? Would you allow your pubescent son to have any sort of friendship with an adult man?

Did he ?
Maybe he did or maybe it was all.an elaborate facade
But paedophile do.often get married and have I assume a seemingly. Normal sex life .

I know someone who was first accused (that we know of ) about 11 years ago not enough evidence then and another case since, still not enough evidance. He was finally found guilty 4 years ago (3rd child to claim SA) and I know he'll be back in court for at least 1 more child.

It's not unusual

I haven't seen the interview. Did anyone ask the parents why their ten year old was repeatedly staying with MJ? Did they have a view on him sharing a bed with an adult.

I think the parents needed to be investigated as well as MJ.

@MaryDroppings adults being on the make doesn't change the odds that the children were victims of abuse. It just means that the same parents that chucked their kids in front of an individual most people wouldn't have let their kids near if he had been Barry from down the road wanted to squeeze a bit more cash out.

The 'money' argument isn't a fair one, because it isn't about decisions made by the victims purely for the benefit of the victims. Being coerced to put in a claim for monetary gain does NOT negate the possibility of abuse. It does, however, raise questions around other abusers in these children's lives, who still financially abuse them into adulthood.

You're talking about star struck parents who clearly used their own children to access higher realms of society. I wouldn't do it but others clearly did.

But it does raise the possibility the parents may have coached their kids on what to say. Honestly, watch the documentary. There's a lot more involved. You'll see what I mean. There's a very fishy timeline with all the allegations.

Why does everyone think he had an abusive childhood- was his dad convicted of anything?!…..

Do you think all abusive parents are convicted?

A quick google throws up "Joseph admitted to whipping his children with switches and belts as punishment, but said he did not do so at random..."

I believe abusers when they admit it.

Of course his dad was abusive I’m just proving a point to all the michael Jackson abuser deniers

You realise James Safechuck is an actor, right?

I think everyone knows his dad was abusive, but from what I know, there is no suggestion that he was sexually abusive. And I’ve never seen any evidence or research that says if you’ve a shit child hood with no sexual abuse it turns you into a paedophile. There are different types of abuse.

You're leaving out the part where Michael said he slept on the floor on that occasion....and Gavin himself said what happened-that Michael got all the covers and pillows and packed them all on the floor or something whilst Gavin took the bed. I really don't wanna get roped into arguing about MJ again after the last thread about it but can people at least get things right? Especially when calling out other posters for being wrong!

Cmon Now he was a grown man, in bed with young children, young children who then explained in distress how he sexually abused them. And in harrowing detail. And who he paid great sums of money to their families to make it go away.

@Cosywintertime I'm not arguing about that I'm saying if we could get the details right about exactly what was said that would be good. I don't know if you can get the clip anywhere now because they probably took it off to protect Gavin's privacy after the allegations, and yes the whole thing was weird sitting their holding hands, regardless of bed sharing or not.

@MaryDroppings the trouble is Sony made the documentary. It's not produced by a disinterested party. I would be more inclined to watch a review undertaken by someone not connected financially with MJs legacy in any way that has nothing to gain from convincing us of his innocence, but I will have a look, certainly.

This sounds really interesting, thank you. Going to have a listen later.

The numbers become larger when there is something to gain i.e extortion, if not directly from the accused, indirectly through TV appearances, newspapers, magazines, publicity etc

This is so true and very important. It's been twisted to look as if Michael was manipulating Gavin to stay in the bed WITH HIM - this is not the case. Michael was asking Gavin to take the bed and Michael to sleep somewhere else. @PeppermintMandy

It looks so bad but when this went to court these are the facts that a court of law had to go through and ultimately found him innocent. Nobody would let that slide "if you love me you'll stay in the bed" when they went into context they realized Michael was innocent. That being said I do think Michael was hella stupid and arrogant how he handled that situation.

Actually @Jioyt you’re wrong, he was charged with child molestation among other things

Saville was never charged. I assume you think he is innocent?

Yes exactly.

Do you know how high the bar is to charge somebody with historical sex abuse crimes?

And do you understand that he was NOT declared innocent? The jury just couldn’t prove his guilt beyond reasonable doubt. Meaning they could very well think he’s a mince (and some jury members even said this) but they HAVE to be able to show there is not a shred of doubt in this case. One bit of doubt and you can’t convict

How many of his accusers have got rich from their accusations?

Hahahahaha

Youre funny.

Being called a liar and thief as a child by defence lawyers is GREAT therapy. No one EVER got phased by a nasty and clever lawyer.

I sincerely hope you don’t have kids.

I’d be surprised if your BIL thinks annoy guilty verdict is declaration of innocence. It isn’t