To think it's tragic if Michael Jackson was indeed innocent

[pregahes]

It's a real shame for someone who created incredible music to have their legacy at risk. It’s just tragic, considering the impact his music had on so many. It's tragic either way, if he's guilty for the victims and if he's innocent for himself.

I'm a huge fan and at one point t thought he was guilty but kore recently change of heart. I think there would be more victims if he weee in fact guilty. Somethings doesnt add up.

It's tragic

That hardly makes you special.

I believe his victims. And I was a huge fan of his but since all this came out, I don’t own any of his music, and turn over if he’s on the radio/TV.

But EVEN if you don’t believe them, or think they were cajoled into making accusations etc, what no one can deny is his very odd behaviour around children, which he was open about - befriending young boys, having non-family children sleeping over his house, often in his bed etc.

That is not normal, and it’s certainly not right. All this nonsense about “he had a messed up childhood” excuses nothing. Just because he was talented and famous does not make it ok.

If an everyday man working in a normal job acted like that, nobody would think it was ok behaviour, or excuse it based on childhood issues. Imagine your husband/uncle/brother having kids he barely knew sleeping over his house??

He is the same as Jimmy Saville. JS was just more obviously creepy, and unable to sing and moonwalk.

There often isn't evidence of sexual crimes.

Are you suggesting all reports of historical abuse should be ignored?

I choose to believe his victims. Thanks God many other do, too.

Why people feel the need to protect a man they never knew is beyond me.

He was 100% guilty. We all know for a fact he was.

He was interviewed by Martin Bashier. Go and rewatch that interview with 2024 eyes.

There’s a clip of him sat with his arms around a (10 year old ish) boy. They look like a couple.

Martin asks the little boy “How do you feel about sharing a bed with Michael?” He replies, “He kept asking me and asking me to sleep in his bed and I said no I didn’t want to. Then he said if I really loved him then I do it for him, so I started doing it and it’s not that bad.” Michael looks terrified when the boy says this and laughs awkwardly.

This IS ABUSE. Emotional manipulation of a child for your own needs is abuse. Obsessing over a child and giving them the world only to dump them once they “age out” of your interest range IS ABUSE. Do we really need solid evidence of rape to believe that the way Michael used children was abusive? Even if he never laid a finger on them in a sexual manner he abused these kids and it fucked them up.

I also recommend watching him turning up to awards ceremonies with little
boys as his plus one. It does not look like two pals, or a parent/child. It looks like a couple in a romantic relationship. It should turn your stomach.

Having a difficult childhood is not an excuse for abusing children in ANY capacity. Those little boys didn’t exist to heal Michael’s trauma. He had all the money in the world to seek professional help for that. Not seek comfort in little kids.

Sorry, my point here is - even if you don’t believe his victims, his undeniable weird behaviour should be enough for any of us to view him very differently and dislike him, even if previously we were fans.

I, like a lot of people, always thought he was just a bit odd but when the accusations came out, I realised I had been guilty of dismissing a lot of his very disturbing behaviour.

Absolutely this.

Several posters saying he had no interest in women. Yes, he did. He had girlfriends and a normal sex life with Lisa Marie. Debbie Rowe was a surrogate, marriage only for legalities.

We don't 100% know because we weren't there, BUT as a child sex abuse survivor, the accounts that the individuals gave is very similar to what I'd say and fits with how a child would perceive the act. I watched the documentary and it was very, very close to what I had gone through.
Michael Jackson made them feel like it was a normal occurance and that they couldn't tell anyone. Vile.

I prefer to look at it as a tragic situation overall. Michael's childhood was a shitshow and he was damaged terribly. Then he continued working and producing some of the best music of his time while becoming sicker as an adult.

Its not a question of innocence but putting it in the perspective that he was a very sick man. The worst part imo is that I'm sure his handlers knew what he was up and let him continue out of greed. Easier to 'manage' him and let him keep the money machine flowing for everyone involved and allow him to molest little boys than to speak out, possibly be destroyed for it and maybe not even see it stop.

I pity him but I also pity all the little kids he sexually molested, they deserved to be protected too. Cycles of violence and sexual abuse are generational-are any of those victims victimizing kids today? That troubles me a lot.

I always thought he had arrested development because of his strange and abusive upbringing, very sad.

@PeppermintMandy I thought that comment on the MB interview was about him giving up his bed - like you would to a houseguest and the boy was being polite saying no it's ok? Might misremember that though.

<Sigh>

He was not ‘found innocent’

And there’s plenty of reasons why people don’t trust the kangaroo court process. Largely due to why99% of rapists get away with it

Also to those thinking a not guilty verdict is a smoking gun / what about all the boys who didn’t get to have their day in court?

And o assume you think Jimmy Saville is innocent too?

Incorrect.

Rewatch the interview with Martin Bashir.

Michael is sat with his arm around a boy (about 10 years old?) and Martin asks the boy, “How do you feel about sharing a bed with Michael?” The boy replies, “He kept asking and asking me to share his bed and I kept saying no. One day he said if I loved him I’d do it so I started doing it. It’s not so bad.”

So no, these little boys weren’t enthusiastically jumping into bed with an adult man. They were being emotionally manipulated into doing something they had repeatedly told Michael they didn’t want to do.

Never matured? Don't make excuses for this abuser, it's exactly what he wanted people to think. Poor Michael, never grew up, had a terrible childhood, it's why he wanted to sleep with kids because he was a pedophile.

I highly recommend listening to the Real Crime Profile podcast episodes where they went through Finding Neverland and the investigations. 2 of the presenters are criminal behaviour experts - one ex-FBI, one ex-Scotland Yard (both experts on domestic abuse, sexual abuse, etc) with Jim Clemente (FBI) a survivor of CSA at the hands of a priest himself.

They both think MJ is guilty as hell.

First of 3 episodes here: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/real-crime-profile/id1081244497?i=1000434021398

@Alcyoneus Jimmy Savile was never found guilty at any trial either- are we supposed to believe that means anyone in that position is innocent? Savile included?

Oh come off it a little boy cannot tell if an adult man has been circumcised.

Also isn’t dark with light spots, not light with dark spots like saying “a zebra is black with white stripes not white with black stripe”

Id love to see a source for this anyway

Lisa and Debbie are the only known women in his life. MJ is very clearly not the father of Debbie’s children. Indeed Mark Lester who donated sperm for MJ makes a case for being Paris being his and Prince looks remarkably like one of MJ’s doctor’s Arnold Klein who has hinted that he was indeed the father.

So that just leaves Lisa Marie who does claim to have had sex with him. 1 swallow does not make a summer.

It is about sharing the bed versus one of them sleeping on the floor and one in the bed (despite Michael not only having plenty of spare rooms but spare HOUSES on his complex). Michael doesn’t want either of them to sleep on the floor and says, if you love me you’d share the bed with me so they started sharing the bed.

All these people saying about Jimmy Saville are missing a major fact. He wasn't proven guilty because he never went to court... because he was dead.

( yes I know there were allegations whilst he was still alive but the majority came forward after his death. Which was when it all unfolded)

Yes, this is exactly how I think, well said.

@StillStuckInTheShed A lot of people knew and a lot of people had come forward. It was covered up because of who he knew. A police investigation was shut down, lower down police have said they were told to stop investigating with no reason given. It only came out when he died because he was dead and could no longer pressure people to cover it up.

The same will happen when Prince Andrew dies.

So, the YouTube documentary called Square One Michael Jackson. I watched it this morning. I don't believe he's guilty anymore. Any takers? I mean without the usual tyrade if venom and nastiness, would anyone like a civilised conversation about the findings of Square One? I have to say it had changed my perspective. Evan Chandler was an absent father while Jordan was friends with Michael Jackson and only started issuing lawsuits when he needed vast sums of money to break into the movie industry. He committed suicide 5 months after the death. And Leaving Neverland? The one who issued a lawsuit 2 weeks before his own family were served with a $24m lawsuit because their family business was in trouble, they would have needed vast sums of money too knowing that they were about to be sued themselves...

Watch the documentary if you are open to having what you thought you knew challenged. There is way more to this and as I die hard no smoke without fire, I'm now having doubts.

Unless the documentary says he wasn't sleeping in bed with those boys (actually, we know he was) and exposing them to pornography (again, we know he did), didn't have an elaborate alarm system to tell him when people were approaching his bedroom (he did), I can't see how it's anything other than the typical attempt to discredit the victims.