AIBU to feel societal pressure re getting a house now we have a DD?

[Wannabemamas]

DH and I have been house hunting for a while but the current market is not great (yes prices are coming down but there aren’t many properties available). We are first time buyers, both almost 40 yo with a DD that is due to start school next year. We live in a lovely suburban London area but have been looking to buy a house elsewhere in the home counties (specifically in Surrey) because our budget won’t allow us to get a house where we are now. Whilst we started off being fully convinced with our decision, we are now having second thoughts having seen that the grass is not necessarily much greener in other areas (either a longer/less straightforward/more expensive commute or generally less nice areas than the one we live in right now).

I have been asking myself whether it would be “weird” to raise DD in an apartment in the London suburbs instead of a house with a garden further out as it’s “expected” once you have a family with DC in this country. I feel I would potentially be content in a nice apartment, provided we have: enough space, lots of natural light, period features like big bay windows would be a big plus, a very long lease, great location. I would definitely miss an outside space as would LOVE to have a garden but I also wonder whether this is a compromise worth making given we love our current area so much and works well for us as a family. There aren’t many garden flats in our area and the few that exist are LG floor with for us is definitely a no go.

For context, we have been renting a small 2 bed flat for almost 10 years so we are used to flat living but current salaries and deposit would allow us to ”upgrade” in terms of space so even if it wasn’t a house, it would definitely be a bigger and nicer flat than the one we have been living in.

I don’t want to let peer and societal pressure push us towards a direction that doesn’t fully work for us but equally, I am scared we’d be regretting not getting a house further down the line.

We also own a cat which is part of our family and I fear this could be an issue with a leasehold (our current landlord is very relaxed about pets so we had no issues but I know this isn’t always the case in leasehold properties?).

@Wannabemamas just ignore that poster.

Nope, mid 30s with kids.

You can feel sorry for me all you want, but it’s your daughter I feel sorry for, being cooped up as she is.

Although this poster is stating it in a bit of an extreme way, they do sort of have a point. It makes the most sense financially to buy a home before you have children because if nothing else your affordability is better pre-children, your career has not yet been affected by maternity leave etc, no childcare bill for mortgage providers to factor in to what you can borrow etc.

I’m in my twenties, DH & I bought our home before ttc and we had always been told to buy before children because it’s much harder to save a deposit post-baby (naturally between another mouth to feed, another person’s life to fund, potentially reduced earning if part tome/mat leave etc), and banks factor in your child when deciding how much you can lend.

It's not a binary choice though, is it? We have a garden and you wouldn't see our kid dead in it. However, we go out near every day to the local nature reserve and she catches a bus into town and to the local tennis court for her practice. You must be a very unimaginative parent if you think children can only get fresh air and movement in a garden.
I also can absolutely bet that you don't turf your child out into the garden in the middle of winter on a daily.

People in the UK can be very weird about flats. I probably shouldn't complain, I live in a gorgeous flat in an area I wouldn't have been able to afford a house in just because people are so weird about them. I have some neighbours with kids who seem to be doing absolutely fine and DH and I don't anticipate moving if we have our own. We're a very short walk from a good park in a very walkable area with lots of amenities within about 5 minutes of us. The building is purpose built from the 70s and the sound proofing is excellent - better in fact than the new build semi we lived in previously.

I would quite like a private garden to potter in, I won't lie, but unless you're a billionaire house hunting is about compromise and the compromise I've made is having upstairs neighbours who I never hear but whose flat provides an extra layer of insulation to keep my heating bills down. In return I get to live somewhere nice and not a suburban desert of amenities.

Don't let people with no imagination dictate how you live your life.

Are there decent schools where you are right now? If parents are all moving to the suburbs who's left for dc to go to school with? This is a real problem in the city I live in, young families moving out, the families who are living centrally are often only there temporarily. But I guess London is big enough that there will always be people around. If the schools are fine then live where you want to live. You might find a flat with a balcony or shared garden? Sounds like your dc will be happy with a little corner of sunshine to play with her toys or read a book.

Don't worry, I've got a garden and my dd(4) never wants to go out there and loves the park instead. I grew up with a garden too and always wanted to be playing out or at the park. İf I say let's sit outside to my dd, she prefers sitting on the front door step watching the world go by.

@TheJanuaryPinks I don’t think you deserve more of my time really but as you have been so incredibly unpleasant to be I just wanted to say that my daughter is a very lucky kid, with a mum and dad that love her and adore her and a full life with many friends and relatives that give her infinite love and care. Her life is filled with stimulating activities, clubs, learning experiences, travels and most importantly love. She isn’t and would not be a deprived kid because we decide to raise her in a beautiful flat in a very wealthy area of south west London, this isn’t what I call deprived in my world. Probably it is in yours but this says a lot about the sort of person you are and the type of values you believe in and what you are teaching your children.
Also, 10 min walk to the park is a healthy way to get out of the house, it shouldn’t be seen as a horrible chore to endure. Just get a grip and goodbye.

@Mrsttcno1 well of course but can you not even contemplate a world where people have different path in lives and not everyone is able to afford their first home in their 20s, particularly in a place like London? I cannot believe people don't get to see that?!!?

@Wannabemamas You can try and justify it however you want, but at the end of the day, your kid is cooped up in a flat her parents don’t even own.

You are literally pissing money away on rent each month rather than creating a stable asset your daughter can enjoy in her youth and will see her right later in life.

Are there decent schools where you are right now? If parents are all moving to the suburbs who's left for dc to go to school with? This is a real problem in the city I live in, young families moving out, the families who are living centrally are often only there temporarily. But I guess London is big enough that there will always be people around

some london schools are being impacted, it’s one reason we moved area.

https://clapham.nub.news/news/local-news/falling-pupil-numbers-force-another-south-london-school-to-close-184115

@TheJanuaryPinks so now you’re judging people who rent? You sound very bitter & unhappy, maybe go back to the Daily Mail

Hi OP, you are absolutely right that we are obsessed with house owning in this country. I wonder if it could be to do with the whole issue of leasehold versus freehold. However, I would rather a flat in the city than a house in the suburbs if that is what I am used to. London is full of green spaces so a garden is not necessary. A stable home comes from those who reside within it, not just from bricks and mortar, and if all three of you are happy with apartment living, then go for it.

i don’t think I would move location for a house. Extra commute and less family time is more important. Especially if you have an abundance of parks near you.

have you looked at maisonettes that maybe more affordable?
also make sure you weigh up the service charges costs flats with lifts can be especially high.

but it’s no one’s business really it’s what fits your lifestyle

One set of our neighbours moved from London... as in early retirement, deposits for DC and downsizing to a bungalow.

They had a big garden with trees to back and side of their property and the previous owners did a lot of work to make it look lovely.

London Couple extended the patio at the back, put in small raised beds and fake grass. The side is now paved for extra car parking.

Concussion is: nope you don't need a garden. Raise your DC however you see fit.

hmmmmm @TheJanuaryPinks i don't agree - my flat has a shared garden and we have a slide out there for my daughter - she barely wants to go out there! she prefers the park - so the garden isn't actually that much of an asset for me at the moment (i hoped / thought it would be and it was a must when we were looking to buy!) I think her life is much better with us living in the flat right next to all the parks and work / nursery / shops! means i dont have to drag her round in the car - we can cycle / walk everywhere!

Our options for house would mean a long commute / parents missing out on evenings with her!

I don't think its selfish

obviously a house would be better for us / more space would be nice - but we just get up and go out every day - we are rarely cooped up inside

Who cares what others think? It is your choice.

However buying a home whether flat or house is important for retirement, and don't forget the cost of service charges, which will always go up.

I think it is a very personal choice. I would always stay in London and would not be able to live in Surrey. Too homogenous for me. London is so vibrant and fun and caters for all ages. Teens are bored in the sticks and kids grow up so quickly. Having said that there will be towns in Surrey that may not feel too different from parts of suburban London (so depends on where you are and what you are looking at).

Nope. If you have to rent, you have to rent.

OP does not have to rent, and can buy property for her daughter’s future. Choosing not to is selfish.

@TheJanuaryPinks you do realise we flat dwellers are allowed to leave our flats?

We live in a flat and Mr Monkey runs 100 plus miles a week. We certainly aren't "cooped up" in a flat. Indeed living in a city where we don't need a car means we probably walk a lot more than suburban garden havers.

@TheJanuaryPinks I don't think you have read the post, we are looking to BUY a property, whether it's a flat or a house elsewhere.
But even if we were "just" renting, this shouldn't be a source of judgment from your end and only goes to confirm what I was saying to you in my earlier post, a very narrowminded way of looking at the world and people, definitely wouldn't want to be your friend, how sad.

I think a garden for children is most useful when they are under 5. Once they start school they tend to prefer the playground and many head there immediately after school finishes. Choose somewhere with green spaces nearby for family walks as well. You will probably end up with a more spacious flat than a house with similar footprint but smaller rooms, stairs etc.

I would always choose living in a nice part of South West London with 1-2 DCs over living somewhere with no culture or soul or on one of those country roads in Surrey where you cannot even walk and have to drive everywhere. You can move to places like Guildford or Winchester with some character but I would still choose South West London any day. In addition, those kind of places are just as expensive anyway. So of course you should choose a nice flat in a place you like. Just make sure it is on a street where people stay and don’t constantly leave to move away. It is a nice for children to have a steady peer group especially at primary school. Play and park dates and things like Halloween are much more fun if there is a close community.

Nope. If you have to rent, you have to rent.

OP does not have to rent, and can buy property for her daughter’s future. Choosing not to is selfish.

You are aware lots of people rent & put money into other investments? Buying isn’t the only war of securing your dc’s future & it would be unwise to rely on that alone particularly with the state of the NHS & care costs

Ignore the stupid posts, OP. Your dd will be completely fine in a flat.

My dsis and bil raised their dc in a lovely flat and he didn't miss out in any way at all.

Just do what you and your DH feel is best for your family. It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.