AIBU to feel societal pressure re getting a house now we have a DD?

[Wannabemamas]

DH and I have been house hunting for a while but the current market is not great (yes prices are coming down but there aren’t many properties available). We are first time buyers, both almost 40 yo with a DD that is due to start school next year. We live in a lovely suburban London area but have been looking to buy a house elsewhere in the home counties (specifically in Surrey) because our budget won’t allow us to get a house where we are now. Whilst we started off being fully convinced with our decision, we are now having second thoughts having seen that the grass is not necessarily much greener in other areas (either a longer/less straightforward/more expensive commute or generally less nice areas than the one we live in right now).

I have been asking myself whether it would be “weird” to raise DD in an apartment in the London suburbs instead of a house with a garden further out as it’s “expected” once you have a family with DC in this country. I feel I would potentially be content in a nice apartment, provided we have: enough space, lots of natural light, period features like big bay windows would be a big plus, a very long lease, great location. I would definitely miss an outside space as would LOVE to have a garden but I also wonder whether this is a compromise worth making given we love our current area so much and works well for us as a family. There aren’t many garden flats in our area and the few that exist are LG floor with for us is definitely a no go.

For context, we have been renting a small 2 bed flat for almost 10 years so we are used to flat living but current salaries and deposit would allow us to ”upgrade” in terms of space so even if it wasn’t a house, it would definitely be a bigger and nicer flat than the one we have been living in.

I don’t want to let peer and societal pressure push us towards a direction that doesn’t fully work for us but equally, I am scared we’d be regretting not getting a house further down the line.

We also own a cat which is part of our family and I fear this could be an issue with a leasehold (our current landlord is very relaxed about pets so we had no issues but I know this isn’t always the case in leasehold properties?).

I don't know where this societal pressure you speak of comes from. Over the last decade we rented, bought a house, then sold it and now are renting again. It is great as it keeps us fully mobile and we don't need to budget for repairs. Our kid is 14 and nobody once told us that we need to buy a house because we have a kid.
I grew up in a flat and never missed a garden. We had parks nearby. My friends live in a flat facing a common. Kids are always out and about - never once heard them complain about lack of a garden.
We will probably eventually settle on buying some land and doing a self-build once the kiddo is grown up. This is purely because we love a project, aren't scared by rural living and also need to plan for our retirement so that we are not stuck with high rental costs. For now, though, it is not a priority. We rent from a wonderful private landlord and are very happy with where we are.

I think that sounds fine. Lots of people raise families living in flats. I don't think that's all that unusual. Actually, I think if you've made it through the toddler years without 'needing' a garden, you've done very well. I would prioritise living in an area you love with a good school and a nice community.

Social pressure is there to be resisted. We had DS in a tiny zone 2 flat, and while we did move out of London to a village when he was still a baby for work, we recognised this was a big mistake, and, though we didn’t move back to London, we moved to another city centre.

@Catza Societal pressure from different angles: general comments from colleagues and other people we know about the “need” to have a garden with kids, general feeling I get from British society (I am not from the UK) that houses are better than flats and leasehold is an absolute nightmare to be avoided at all costs.
I also have several friends currently in flats in our areas all looking to sell and “upgrade” to a big house, although none of them can afford that where we are now so they will all eventually move out in slightly less desirable areas. I suppose this is what affects me the most, seeing everyone around me (family, colleagues and friends) moving on to a house whereas the next stage of our life would still be a flat, almost as if we are falling behind – which is a very silly thing to think but it’s how I feel.

You need to stop worrying about what other people think. Honestly, loads of families live in flats and manage just fine. The pressure you refer to is coming from your choice of acquaintances, reading material and exposures only. It's not as widespread a view as you think (especially in London) and if you change some of your external influences you may see a marked difference in what you consider societal expectations to be.

Be honest - would you use a garden? Enough to be worth moving somewhere you are less keen on or spend more

We live two bed flat (albeit without young children) and had lots of "concerned" comments during lockdown about how hard it must have been for us without a garden. We have many parks, commons and even a wood all within 15 mins walk of our flat so were out and about a lot more than friends and relatives with little gardens.

What would say if so look for somewhere with some private outdoor space - we have a large private balcony and it is invaluable for growing plants, sitting outside in the summer and drying washing.

Our 'need' for a garden pretty much disappeared when kids went to secondary, and for our less sporty DD, it had disappeared much much sooner. For very active kids, a garden is definitely a blessing early on, but even then it comes with a cost. When we moved from London to Sussex, I really missed sociable playgrounds where everyone hung out. In Sussex, everyone played in their gardens so most playgrounds had tumbleweed apart from the 10 minutes after schools finished. If you're happy in a flat, and you're living in an area you love, stick with it.

If it helps my kids are already not that bothered about the garden and I think if overall it's a compromise you're happy to make, then that's all that matters.

We have a garden but our house is on the small side, would it be nice to have a bit more space etc? Yes absolutely. But to stay in the area we like then this is our best option and I'm happy with that.

As long as you're ok with the lease etc then go for what works for you. A decision of this magnitude shouldn't have the opinion of random others involved.

The only people you need to make happy are yourselves. If other people want to focus on houses and make other compromises accordingly then that’s up to them. Besides which, this isn’t some once in a lifetime opportunity. If you buy a flat and a few years down the line feel it makes real practical sense to begin looking for a house, that’s what you do.

Leasehold isn’t this scary beast so many people seem to believe it is. The majority of the millions of flats in England and Wales are leasehold and most leaseholders have entirely uneventful experiences. It’s usually only private estates with residents’ associations and occasionally ex-council flats on estates where you come up against strict clauses around pets and so on, it’s not a feature of leasehold per se.

Families living in flats is perfectly usual in London - a city that is full of parks. Lots of conversions come with split gardens & some blocks have communal gardens too, depending on where you are in London & when the properties were built. You get flats the size of/bigger than 3-bed houses. No use having a house somewhere you’re miserable & have to spend hours commuting to & from if you could be happy in a flat in London.

Don't let anyone pressurise you, into saying you MUST have a house or a garden. (I say this as someone who is big on gardening and have a big garden!!) I had a friend perfectly lovely Victorian cottage, her very middle class friends used to say ",oh what a sweet little house" or "oh this is just like our first little place before we had the kids '. She moved, bought a big townhouse. The kids left home soon afterwards and she was diagnosed with arthritis needs knee and hip replacements. All for keeping up with the Jones.

I know it's quite entrenched in our culture to get as much house as you can afford and that 3 bed semi when kids arrive.

But I think flexibility is important also and living the life YOU enjoy and not overcommitting financially. I know mortgages are stress tested, but the real test is what could you afford if you lost one income totally.

It does sound like you want to stay put. Even in rural areas, there are families in flats with no garden.

What you lose from not having a garden, you gain in other ways.

You could always move again if you got to a stage in life where a garden was a must.

Thanks all for these comments.
To be honest, I don't think DD would be missing out much without a garden as she is not a particularly active and outdoorsy kid. She is happier at home playing with dolls or at the cafe' with mum and dad. It's mainly for our own sake I'd like a garden as the idea of summer al fresco dining and being able to do a bit of gardening sounds like absolute bliss. But I get that sometimes life is a compromise so I cannot have it all with our budget.

@25yearstilretirement what you are saying is very true but how does one change this? The type of people I work with and that I know are very much MC and mainly living in big houses or trying to sell their flats to gain more space, it's hard to gain a different perspective when this is the world you live in

I grew up in a flat in zone 1 London and I bought my own flat there with DH where we lived for a decade. We had 2 dcs when living there and I never experienced any societal pressure to move out to a house in the suburbs. Almost all of our friends were also living in zone 1-2. The ones who did move out simply didn't have the budget for a cental London flat but they reluctantly moved out further rather than it being a choice, and they always seemed envious of our ease of accessing London entertainment and culture. In my social circle, it's normal to want to live as central as you can afford, and only move out further if you can't afford it. So there's a social prestige to living more centrally, even if it's in a flat.

We now live in a 4 bed house in zone 2, but we moved mainly for schools in the area. We would have happily stayed more central if there were schools there that met our needs. I definitely would never have considered moving as far as Surrey.

I don't think it would be unreasonable to get a flat if that's what works for you. But I wouldn't have wanted to live in a flat with young children. Less because of not having a garden and more because of the noise! Kids wake up early and as soon as they can they are running about playing. But if they are waking up neighbours (downstairs in particular) or neighbours are waking them.up with banging doors and loud music, that is going to be extremely uncomfortable for everyone.

The other thing to consider is that flats don't tend to increase in value as much as houses. So if you decided down the line you wanted to sell up and get a house, you might still be looking at the houses you are looking at now.

We lived in flats without gardens with all 3 of our children-eldest is 14 and youngest 6. We did what you’ve explained and moved out to a home county to a house with a garden and do regret it somewhat now. Yes the garden has been fantastic in the warmer months and theres no fear of leaving the ‘back door open’. We moved from Kings Cross so quite a vibrant part of London to Hertfordshire. We miss the hustle of it and especially miss being closer to family and friends. My husband commutes in every day-self employed-which is a headache for him most days. Granted we’ve saved money as we no longer have to shell out a fortune on parking permits but now it’s the extra expense of renovations both inside and out to the property. I guess it depends on how far out you want to be and whether financially you’d be better off I suppose. My children have been to 3 separate primaries in 3 years so it’s a lot for them to go through too!

@jenrain yes that I get, but we are not in zone 1 :)

I was brought up in a top floor flat in Crystal Palace and didn't leave home until my early 20s. Nothing wrong with that and it hasn't (so far as I am aware) had any impact on me at all. It was a warm, weatherproof, safe, and loving home and with a park of 19 acres half a mile away I had more space than any kid with a garden. My parents wouldn't move because they loved the area and they both stayed in the flat until they died.

@meganorks everyone seems concerned about noise but tbh our DD is very quiet and not very physical. We are used to apartment living so never tend to play very loud music or jump around etc.

I don't think living in a flat is an issue but I would say that at some point if you buy you will own your home, whereas if you rent you will need to be paying rent when retired. Paying off my mortgage felt very good! I would definitely say consider buying but it doesn't need to be a house

@anothernamechangeagainsndagain maybe it wasn't clear but what I was trying to say is that we'd consider buying a flat where we are now rather than a house further afield. I never said I wanted to keep renting :)

We are also both European. I grew up in a flat (everyone did in my part of Europe), my partner was moved out of a city flat to a house in a village at a young age. We both had happy childhoods and, being "foreigners" really can't get on board with the obsession with houses in the UK. Maybe that's why we never felt the pressures you are talking about.
My British ex also had a big aversion to bungalows. I could never understand that either.

@Catza same here, grew up in a flat in my home country where this is the norm also for very wealthy families.
I know flats in the UK are a bit different and leasehold is annoying so maybe that's why people seem to see houses as something to aspire to.
My DH is from the north of england but lived in London most of his adult life and is now used to apartment living. Our friends, colleagues and family are a mix of British and EU and Asian and the vast majority of them seem to view a house with garden as the golden standard for a family.

live in a flat in zone 2 in london with toddler - baby on the way in the summer - i live walking distance to 3 wonderful parks, a huge Gym with swimming pool, a brilliant soft play, 3 supermarkets, loads of places to eat all on the doorstep!

I live a 20 minute walk to work

I wouldn't move further out for a house and give up all these things tbh!

I have had people ask if we are moving when number 2 comes along - i just say no plans to ! and leave it at that - don't care what anyone else has to say or think tbh

It really depends on your family / child - my daughter never even looks at the garden but we got a garden for our football mad son.
re pets - we rent and most landlords are fine with our two cats from experience.