To consider leaving my 3yo to cry for me

[Newmama93]

I have my second DS 5 weeks ago, my first DS was sleeping with my husband consistently for about a year (to get this to happen I had to let him scream for 2 plus hours at bedtime with DH until he finally accepted it) and would call out for him when he woke during the night as I used to work nights. He’d randomly call out for me when I was pregnant and home and I’d go in occasionally (if I didn’t he’d have a meltdown)

since my baby has arrived I’ve been in my bedroom (where I’ve always been) with the baby and my DH has just moved himself into my sons room and attempted to just sleep there all night with him instead of him calling out and I’m also co sleeping with our baby so didn’t want an extra adult in the bed..

my first DS has started to wake up 3/4 times a night and scream for me, my dh leaves the room to get me and my son won’t have him back in. He would tantrum for over an hour so I’ve just been going in, he has a cuddle and goes straight back to sleep. Problem is, he wakes again and if it’s dh back in the bed and not me it starts again he’s screaming mummy where are you! He’s hysterical begging my DH to go and get me.

so I’m breastfeeding second DS every 2 hours by the time I settle and get him back to sleep my son is screaming for me and I’m running on probably an hour overall of broken sleep. I’m so exhausted. I don’t want to leave my son and have my husband say no you can’t have mummy it’s me in this bed as I don’t want him to feel replaced but I can’t have this anymore. I dread nights and bed. I’ve also been putting my son to bed instead of my husband now as he begs me too and goes on and seems sooo upset, but I want my husband to be able too as well.

also… sometimes to get some sleep I’ll go into my sons room while my husband goes in our room and settles baby so it’s probably confusing for us to say no mummy can’t come in this room then at times I am in there.

side note my son has always been a mummys
bot and preferred me but he’s really against his dad at the moment, won’t go anywhere with him without me etc which is such a shame.

what do I do!!!!

My son was like this at this age. Attempts to get DH to put him down resulted in absolute hysteria. He's always found getting to sleep difficult and seemed to need emotional reassurance from me in particular. It was easier for me as didn't have Ds2 till ds1 was 7. My sympathies because this sounds really hard and heartbreaking for you.

Could you put a single bed in the room with you for DS1, so baby is still safe while co-sleeping, but you are there and he can see you?

I have an 11 week old DS and a 3 year old DS and have just been through something very similar. Like everything this is a phase & it will get better.
Do anything you can to get some sleep this is your priority right now. Agree with PP idea of sleeping in toddlers room. You can work everything else out afterwards once things sre a bit easier as they WILL get easier even though it doesn’t feel like it right now. I’m sorry I don’t have anymore practical advice just that it will get better soon.

I’m also battling sleep with a refluxy newborn and a 3 year old who is a terrible sleeper.

Please speak to your Health Visitor. I did and they referred me to a nursery nurse who is coming next week to give me some advice.

This sounds incredibly hard OP and agree about asking for advice from your HV.

Don’t just see this as a nighttime problem. This is where the issues are arising but they’re being impacted by daytime routines (or lack of) behaviour and your responses.

You should take baby and go into ds room. Ds is feeling replaced and he is taking this out on your dh. I don’t understand the need for dh to be in son’s bed. Your son should be in his own bed, so he learns to settle himself without parent in his bed. Can you get a camp bed to go in his room ?
all this Co sleeping the whole nighttime routine sounds a nightmare. I exclusively bf all my girls, but they had their own cots and moved into their own beds, I never experienced difficulties like this. You might want to rethink.

DS was two and a half when DD was born and went through a stage of unsettled sleep - understandable with all the uncertainty but really not what you need on top of newborn sleep!

I do understand why others are suggesting to sleep with him but I don’t know, it is worth a try but my feeling is it might be better to power through. It probably is best to try to get ds1 to sleep alone but not the best time to try!

Our daugher was 2.5 when our son was born, and she was sleeping in our bed already at that point. She carried on sleeping in our bed, and our son slept in a Snuzpod near the bed. Our son is also EBF. She’d sometimes get upset if I was up in the night feeding him and she woke up, but i was in the same room and could reassure her.

When my son was 9 months old, we moved both of them to the same room. That way she didn’t feel she was being kicked out or replaced, and they still have each other overnight. Her sleep was a bit disturbed after the move, but she settled down after a few weeks. It’s worked out really well for us. Would you be open to trying something like that?

This.

The co-sleeping sounds like a nightmare tbh

can You carve out some 1:1 time with DS during day so he doesn’t fed pushed out?
hopefully will make him feel more secure in the night time. Can you explain you need sleep to be able to play with him the next day? Something he would understand? Get him to help with the baby so he feels included eg bringing you a pack of wipes or something?

I wouldn’t have him in the room with you whilst you bedshare a newborn just incase he gets jealous and gets in the bed. Accidents happen. Newborns are fragile.

im sorry this sounds really tough.

My son had unsettled sleep for just over a week when his sister arrived. So we decided to pretend that his sister goes to bed the same time. Took them up together. Both me and dad said night to son. Now he feels he's not missing anything and back to sleeping 12 hours.

On*

I think you need to break the pattern you're in.

Could you take the newborn to a hotel with you for a few nights? By the time you get back DS and DH would have found a routine that doesn't involve you.

What you're doing isn't sustainable. I would be scared to co sleep with a newborn if I was that sleep deprived.

Thanks for the tips

i spend soo much time with my son 1:1! I’ve neglected myself and my
home to do so! Even when baby is up I’m chatting to DS and doing one handed games with him. When DH gets home I’m taking DS for bike rides and special outings. We go out and I’ve kept our routine the same!

I can’t sleep with him as my newborn is quite colicky/fussy and it takes me a long while to settle. So I’m happy safely co sleeping for my own sanity until he is less fussy in the nights, it takes me way longer to settle into bassinet.

hoping this passes.. I don’t think I can just flat out refuse to go into him but also don’t feel it’s the time to work on him sleeping alone as hell still wake and most likely yell out for us. I wouldn’t even know where to start.

I'd have both kids in the bed with me and leave dh in a bed on his own - your 3 year old will sleep through any newborn fussing and you can side lay, feed + doze at the same time. Path of least resistance so you get some sleep for now

We were going to do this! But my toddler literally climbs around the bed at night in his sleep ! I’m an extremely light sleeper but I still don’t want to risk it.

I might try the single bed option in the room or try to get baby sleeping alone. My concern is also when I am not here / just wish he was ok with DH sometimes! I feel so so so needed 24/7!

This. I know you can’t see the forest for the trees when you’re exhausted, so it’s just easier to bung them in bed with you for some short term relief, but all it does is create these ridiculous situations where your child gets to 3 years old and is still crying for you through the night like a newborn. And you’re training your new baby to be exactly the same. You’re going to have to bite the bullet with your 3 year old, accept you’re going to have a few really shit nights, and pretty much super nanny him to get him to sleep alone in his own bed. And get that baby out of your bed asap, you don’t need to co sleep with a newborn, get one of those next to me cribs at least. I say this with the upmost sympathy because I made the same mistake with mine at first. I also made the same excuses that I see a lot of people saying on here like ‘oh I HAVE to go sleep with them or they won’t settle at all, they just WON’T’!! Except they WILL! If you flatly refuse to have to baby sleep on or next to you and put them in the crib for every single nap, they’re not going to decide to just not sleep ever again. They have to sleep op, and the quicker you get into good habits, the better.

What about getting a big super king bed and having a family bed. Just give in to it. You all need some sleep and your son clearly needs you in the night a lot.

That is 100% just trying to make a bad situation worse. Short term relief like pp said. Then she’s got 2 non sleepers in her bed, potentially for at least another 3 years if the baby is as bad as her current 3yo. I’d have no relationship left if I kicked my dh out of bed for 6 years instead of learning how to settle my children in their own beds. I’ve got no time for children in my bed, I don’t know how anyone who does gets any sleep at all. The only time they’ve even slept in my room is when they’re sick so I’ve dragged their mattress in on the floor. It’s been non negotiable at all, so funnily enough I’ve had zero issues with any of my children. If my children where still waking me up at 3 years old I’d either be in a mental hospital or I’d have put them up for adoption 😂

Would your baby take a bottle - even of expressed milk - from DH in the night? Then you could get some sleep but still be there for your eldest? Even if DH was only doing one night feed with the baby it would help. Or if not doing the settling with the baby after you’ve fed.

I agree with those saying everyone being in their own bed would help - and the baby in a cot near your bed.

She’s got a newborn in her bed which is already very risky and against most guidelines. She’s already said the toddler doesn’t keep still and she’s a very light sleeper, so not only will no one get any sleep, it’s putting the baby at even further risk having the toddler crawling all over the bed. It would be making everything even more dangerous and even more exhausting. And it’s dragging out the actual issues instead of just addressing the fact that the children need to learn to sleep alone. Her older child does not ‘need’ her through the night at all.

Any tips on how to get my toddler to sleep alone? We do books and he rolls over and goes to sleep after our 4th book. Then I leave the room. I’m not sure how to make him understand sleeping alone when he falls asleep with one of us there.

anyway not implementing anytime for prob a month or so as I don’t want to add anymore change!

This sounds like absolute chaos.
Everyone needs to be in their own bed. And it sounds like you give your older child plenty of attention in the day. He needs to be told nicely but firmly that nighttime is for rest and sleeping and you will see him in the morning. Atm he is calling the shots. He will yell and scream until he can’t anymore - but he won’t do it for more than a couple of nights! Don’t make a rod for your own back. You all need sleep - especially when you are back at work in a few months.

It is! It wasn’t like this before baby. He’d sleep alone until like 2am then call out for husband which is still not great at almost 3 but it was much better than what he used to be!

so then do I just refuse to go in when he’s calling out screaming in the night or send husband in?

That’s the first mistake a lot of people make with their babies, they only put them down or leave them after they’ve fallen asleep. So they don’t learn to fall asleep alone. I think you’re just going to have a few tough nights. Read him a couple of stories and then leave the room when he’s looking sleepy, but not quite asleep. Say goodnight to him. And after that completely refuse to engage. If he cries just leave him to cry, if he gets up then pick him up without making eye contact, don’t say a word to him, and put him straight back to bed. Over and over again. You may have to do this over 50 times until he gives in. He will eventually though. Every night you do this it’ll get easier, you can’t give in even once because then he thinks he can change the rules. I know you think you’re being nice to him by getting up all through the night, but he’s suffering just as much as you op. A young child with disrupted sleep and waking up like yours does is at more risk of mental health and behavioural problems. It can cause impulsivity, stress, depression, aggression issues, anxiety and thinking problems in young children. It can also affect his physical development. He’s only waking as he’s learnt to use you as some sort of security blanket that he’s never had to go without. The quicker you teach him to sleep without you, the quicker HE can get the benefits of sleeping properly.

Better for husband to do it, but he needs to be firm too. It's time to sleep (DS name). Put back to bed. Leave. Don't keep going in, or he will learn that he gets attention by hollering. And you will all be in for a crap next day as everyone will be tired. It will be brutal, but it will be worth it. Sadly all hard lessons that we need to learn are often hard.