To consider leaving my 3yo to cry for me

[Newmama93]

I have my second DS 5 weeks ago, my first DS was sleeping with my husband consistently for about a year (to get this to happen I had to let him scream for 2 plus hours at bedtime with DH until he finally accepted it) and would call out for him when he woke during the night as I used to work nights. He’d randomly call out for me when I was pregnant and home and I’d go in occasionally (if I didn’t he’d have a meltdown)

since my baby has arrived I’ve been in my bedroom (where I’ve always been) with the baby and my DH has just moved himself into my sons room and attempted to just sleep there all night with him instead of him calling out and I’m also co sleeping with our baby so didn’t want an extra adult in the bed..

my first DS has started to wake up 3/4 times a night and scream for me, my dh leaves the room to get me and my son won’t have him back in. He would tantrum for over an hour so I’ve just been going in, he has a cuddle and goes straight back to sleep. Problem is, he wakes again and if it’s dh back in the bed and not me it starts again he’s screaming mummy where are you! He’s hysterical begging my DH to go and get me.

so I’m breastfeeding second DS every 2 hours by the time I settle and get him back to sleep my son is screaming for me and I’m running on probably an hour overall of broken sleep. I’m so exhausted. I don’t want to leave my son and have my husband say no you can’t have mummy it’s me in this bed as I don’t want him to feel replaced but I can’t have this anymore. I dread nights and bed. I’ve also been putting my son to bed instead of my husband now as he begs me too and goes on and seems sooo upset, but I want my husband to be able too as well.

also… sometimes to get some sleep I’ll go into my sons room while my husband goes in our room and settles baby so it’s probably confusing for us to say no mummy can’t come in this room then at times I am in there.

side note my son has always been a mummys
bot and preferred me but he’s really against his dad at the moment, won’t go anywhere with him without me etc which is such a shame.

what do I do!!!!

I was a single parent to a 2 year old and a newborn a few years ago. 2 year old had always co-slept so there was no way I was going to move him into his own bed once newborn was here. So I co-slept with them both, one on one side of me and one on the other - I did have a big king size bed though so there was plenty of room. Meant I could comfort both (and BF newborn) as and when needed. I would not have coped on my own 24/7 otherwise - I only had one pair of hands and couldn't be in 2 different rooms at the same time obviously.

Those early days are about survival, you do what you can to get through - and get some sleep.

I think co sleeping is where its going wrong. You need to start a whole new fresh plan. I get baby is colicky , get them their own sleep pod or moses basket and a breathing monitor for peace of mind which lays under that mattress. You can't go on like this anymore, try pumping and your husband do a night feed. Haven't Co slept with any of my kids, straight to moses basket and the same routine every night and they know ehat to expect . Sorry your going through this, I'm not meaning to sound harsh, we are all learning as parents

Wow give your 5 year old some love and affection. Id personally let 5 year old sleep with me and put baby in a next to me crib/cot where its also safer

@Kezb16091983

Just because this worked on your kids doesn't mean it's a simple solution for everyone. Some children will cry and scream until they vomit rather than self-settle.

We have been going through exactly the same and it has only really calmed down in the last month or so. Things that worked for me:

-Telling my two year old in advance about what would happen (that morning, then again during dinner, then before bed) - 'tonight daddy is going to put you to bed won't that be lovely? He will help you put on your pyjamas, then brush your teeth, then you can come in for a cuddle with mummy before story and sleep.' I'd go on about how lovely daddy was etc. Even though she was still sad it did help .
-Made a big point of everyone having their own bed - daddy sleeps in his bed in the blue room, you sleep in your bed with your lovely fish sheets, mummy sleeps in her bed, and baby sleeps in his basket. I made sure she saw the baby sleeping in his basket at times as well to reinforce the idea that he slept in there, even though he often didn't.
-Keep some consistency in routine as that's reassuring for them, even if it's not what they really want. Work out what works and keep doing it. I was trying to put both kids separately to bed and becoming exhausted and felt desperate as they were both not getting what they needed. We switched to dad putting toddler down and me just doing baby which means both are now sleeping better in the night as they are getting to sleep earlier. For us dad takes baby during dinner so I can hang out with DD, then dad gets DD ready for bed whilst I feed baby, then she comes in and has a cuddle, then goes to bed with dad. If he falls asleep with dad there he won't be upset to find you gone and dad there. I mostly ignored my toddler calling and left dad to comfort her (well, in reality I heard her and was devastated nor to be able to go to her) but if she wqs really really getting worked up I would go in and cuddle her and tell her how much I loved her and that mummy was just next door, but mummy needed to sleep in her own bed and DD in hers so we could get good rest, and she would see me in thw morning for a cuddle when she woke up. Then we had a consistent routine of her coming in for a cuddle before going downstairs so she knew she'd see me. It did work eventually but there were a few nights of 'I don't want you daddy!!!!'
-Re sleeping in her own bed alone we did the 'gradual retreat' method which actually was much easier than I feared. Again I told her in the morning then again during dinner about what would happen- tonight instead of being in bed with you mummy is going to sit in the rocking chair until you fall asleep. Then a couple of nights later I moved to sitting outside the door, then to my room. I also made a big deal about it being her big girl bed, wow aren't those sheets really cool, aren't you lucky to have such a lovely bed etc basically making her excited about her room. Before bed I would tell her how she would be so snuggly and warm and safe in her cosy bed, and if she wanted us she could call out and 'mummy or daddy' would come. Then we made sure to come quickly if she woke up scared, but not stay long, repeating the same gradual retreat step (e.g. hug, reassure, shall mummy stay in the rocking chair until you fall asleep again?). We leave her with books and a nightlight and she would just chat to herself and fall asleep. I would NOT recommend you do this yet though, wait until baby is 6 months plus as otherwise DS is likely to feel abandoned.

Sorry, world's longest post there!

Toddler is 3 and if he gets 1 on 1 time with mum and dad during the day he gradually should learn that he is safe with dad in another room. He has the typical anxiety when a new sibling comes along.
If you stay calm as parents and don't feed his anxiety, but do lots of reassuring whenever he settles calmly he will gradually change his associations.
A family should balance everyone's needs (age appropriately). Mum's sleep is also a priority for her mental health and sanity.

We had 3 and I extended BF them all and co-slept, but DH and I worked to help the children transition into their own rooms as toddlers and eventually they slept deeper and longer.

We also had a toddler mattress at the foot of our bed and the kids sometimes slept there when they were making a transition from co-slèeping. It depends on the child.

They pick up a lot of cues from us and if we are getting anxious they get fearful too and think they can't do something.

We didn't let our kids CIO but we also were firm but kind when teaching them transitions.

It's very important that although you are exhausted you get 1 on 1 time during the day with your toddler so he doesn't just associate you with nighttime comfort. 3 yr old is also a world away from 2 when they are still really babies. You can have full on conversation with a 3 old and they can wait and understand in a way that most 2 yr olds can't.

Also if you do have to cope on your own before you get your son to sleep on his own properly I'd second the advice of the PP above who said have one of them either side of you - I've had to do that when home alone and toddler won't settle or stay asleep. It's not ideal and I find I don't sleep much but it's a helpful emergency measure.

"I’m not sure how to make him understand sleeping alone when he falls asleep with one of us there."

I'm only 1st trimester with my first, so take this with a pinch of salt perhaps as this is only from having been a child myself rather than parenting - But have you considered audiobooks rather than reading to him directly?

That way he can have the 1:1 bedtime moment of settling down, picking stories, goodnight kisses/cuddles etc, he also gets to see you leave that way and understand that he needs to sleep on his own.

I used to go to bed with cassette tapes and I don't recall my mum ever mentioning sleep issues with me -

One thing I will say though is try to "vet" the audiobooks if poss.

It was a cassette tape story that enlightened me to the nature of Father Christmas and The Easter Bunny - it wasn't long after that that I ended up saying something along the lines of "So is God like Santa too then?" - We weren't even a religious family! 😂

I would have both kids in bed with me and husband in other bed.Also, if you do your child's bedtime he's going to want you when he wakes up

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but what working for my eldest was talking a lot in the day time about what was going to happen at night. I was really surprised at what a difference it made. So in the car or at breakfast or when playing we'd say 'and remember daddy is putting you to bed tonight, he can't wait, what stories will you choose' etc etc. she barely responded and seemed to ignore us sometimes but by the time evening rolled around there was so much less drama. Also talked a lot about how mummy would do bedtime again one day and the new way of doing things wasn't forever, as I realised she wouldn't understand that unless I explained it to her!

Actually @SpicyMoth is absolutely right. I was too exhausted to read to them at night with #3 so bought older dds (3 & 5) a cd player and lots of audio books - which I vetted very carefully! I am sure these days podcasts etc would have great age appropriate material. It really worked with mine and as an added bonus massively helped their future reading and vocabulary as they LOVED to listen to their favs over and over.
Even as they got older they listened to all of Harry Potter and loads of others series.

It honestly saved my life and assuaged my guilt of just not physically being capable of staying awake any longer! DH was just as knackered as me as he started work early and was on-call at night.

Next to me crib for the newborn all the way!

this may be a stupid question, but why does your DS call for you instead of coming in to your room and getting in bed himself? Mght be easier for you if he learned to wake up, come in and cuddle and go back to sleep, then DH could carry him back to bed or you could leave him there.

Just remembered when my 20 yr old comes home from uni I will still sometimes find her fast asleep while Harry Potter is being read on her phone 😂😂

Also the prep thing worked with night wakings. I'd mention several times in the the day that if she woke up at night she could cuddly her teddy and go back to sleep, couldn't believe it when she actually started doing it!
In terms of getting them to sleep alone, for us the whole ' I'm just popping to my room to put my PJ's on, I'll be back in 5.mins to check you' worked until we could just leave. Sometimes I stay now until she's asleep but I remind her that if she wakes up I won't be there (and that she can call for daddy 🤣)
I really underestimated how much prepping and explaining things lots would help.

I also still do this at 27! It's Sherlock Holmes all the way these days for me, can't be doing without it 😂

Also sometimes the only way I could get all 3 to nap at the same time was drive them around. I would always put on this very relaxing guitar instrumental. After a couple of minutes they would start saying "not the music, not the music!" And then all crash out cold. 😂😂 I'd played this before a nap when they were babies too.

Sounds hearbreaking for ds1. It's a sensitive time for him as attention is shared. But you're only 1 person how much can you do?
You need to feed baby and get rest that is your main priority.
Can you and your husband sit with your son and speak to him about what bedtime routines could look like, just so he knows what to expect.

Maybe you settle him and your husband can read him some fun new books to help them bond through an activity. Maybe your husband just needs to give ds1 things to enjoy so he has something to look forward to with dad whilst you get to concentrate on baby whilst also playing a part of tucking him in and anything else you'd like to do. But then you have to tell your son I'm going to go and I'll see you in the morning so he knows not to expect you and stick to it so he can get used to it and knows what to expect.

OP, it's such an intense period, and the sleep deprivation can be awful. I would 100% take both children into my bed and let everyone get some sleep - it can be done safely with a few precautions. That's what I did with each of my 3; it doesn't last forever and they all sleep well now. I'm really horrified by some of the responses on here, there's such a poor understanding of normal childhood sleep and attachment.

@AppropriateAdult my only concern with this would be is this safe? Does OP have this space in her home set up? Would the baby regularly waking every 2 hrs disrupt ds1s sleep and potentially viceversa? It will result in everyone being sleep deprived and stressed out?

I would view this as your toddler feeling unsettled and in need of reassurance from you. I would probably try having him in the same room or in the same bed with baby in a next2me. Only until he feels more secure and you can get your husband more involved again. Good luck - it sounds really hard.

It's been a huge adjustment for your child and he needs you. It sounds like some kind of separation anxiety which baby could have triggered. Lots of reassurance during the day that despite his baby sibling being here, you're always there but daddy loves you too etc etc?

No other advice except it's probably just as hard on him as it is on you x

Your 3 year old needs to learn to fall asleep alone - once he can do this, the calling out for you in the night should lessen. Read stories at bedtime until he is sleepy but not asleep, then kiss him goodnight and leave. He will cry so then return, reassure him, say goodnight and leave. Keep this up until he falls asleep. Expect some difficult nights but will be worth it if you persevere! Hard to do with a new baby I know 😕 could you express so that DH can do some evening/night feeds?

Re teaching him to sleep alone, just say: I need a wee, I need to check on daddy, I need to get my water bottle but stay out the room for longer. When he calls, check in but try to prolong to staying out of the room.

Some of these replies are harsh.
I have a 3.5 year old and an 11 month old. My husband slept next to my then 2.5 year old and when he wanted mummy, husband just carried him through. Breastfed baby was in the / next to the babybay, toddler in the middle. It was a phase and only lasted a little while. Knowing he could come to me gave him the security he needed to calm down at night again, went back to sleeping next to my husband, and now sleeps quite happily in his own bed without any of us. No regrets . And cosleeping didn't destroy our relationship because my husband and I are aware that having small children sometimes trumps our own needs and we muddle on through knowing we'll get us back before we know it.

So please don't let these posts bring you down, op. You and your oh are doing what you feel is right by your children. It's tough as hell though, I know. This too shall pass.