To consider leaving my 3yo to cry for me

[Newmama93]

I have my second DS 5 weeks ago, my first DS was sleeping with my husband consistently for about a year (to get this to happen I had to let him scream for 2 plus hours at bedtime with DH until he finally accepted it) and would call out for him when he woke during the night as I used to work nights. He’d randomly call out for me when I was pregnant and home and I’d go in occasionally (if I didn’t he’d have a meltdown)

since my baby has arrived I’ve been in my bedroom (where I’ve always been) with the baby and my DH has just moved himself into my sons room and attempted to just sleep there all night with him instead of him calling out and I’m also co sleeping with our baby so didn’t want an extra adult in the bed..

my first DS has started to wake up 3/4 times a night and scream for me, my dh leaves the room to get me and my son won’t have him back in. He would tantrum for over an hour so I’ve just been going in, he has a cuddle and goes straight back to sleep. Problem is, he wakes again and if it’s dh back in the bed and not me it starts again he’s screaming mummy where are you! He’s hysterical begging my DH to go and get me.

so I’m breastfeeding second DS every 2 hours by the time I settle and get him back to sleep my son is screaming for me and I’m running on probably an hour overall of broken sleep. I’m so exhausted. I don’t want to leave my son and have my husband say no you can’t have mummy it’s me in this bed as I don’t want him to feel replaced but I can’t have this anymore. I dread nights and bed. I’ve also been putting my son to bed instead of my husband now as he begs me too and goes on and seems sooo upset, but I want my husband to be able too as well.

also… sometimes to get some sleep I’ll go into my sons room while my husband goes in our room and settles baby so it’s probably confusing for us to say no mummy can’t come in this room then at times I am in there.

side note my son has always been a mummys
bot and preferred me but he’s really against his dad at the moment, won’t go anywhere with him without me etc which is such a shame.

what do I do!!!!

I don't think it's the right time for "forcing" him to stay in his own bed/sleep with dad, he's clearly feeling anxious due to the baby. Therefore I would try and approach it with the attitude of getting your son to cooperate rather than repeated putting him back to bed etc. If he feels understood and like he has some choice he will be more likely to do. Forcing him against his will won't help him feelings of worry about the new baby.

You do need a firm and calm and consistent front as that will give him more confidence too. Don't show stress or get (visibly) annoyed.

3 is definitely old enough to understand and respond to instruction. I find as pp have said that explaining to the child that everyone needs a good sleep, that if they wake up they should stay in their bed and go back to sleep, and repeating this as necessary, in a positive tone that suggests you are confident that they can do it, does help. Talk through with your child what he will do if he wakes up in the night. You could come up with some options together and agree what he will do. He can probably think of a few things himself and may surprise you. Calm praise for any slight improvement thereafter

During the daytime you can try and name some of his feelings, perhaps suggest to him that it is sometimes hard being big brother and having to share mummy with a new baby, and see how he responds. Do this with the aim of listening and acknowledging his feelings rather than jumping to reassure him. Let him be babied in other ways if he wants to be.

I would think about putting a bed for him in your room but would probably try to avoid having in your bed, just because you probably won't get much sleep. But see what your child suggests first.

I did this with my two (2.5y gap) and they very rarely wake each other. the baby could be crying (also rare but teething etc) and the toddler wouldn't wake. Safety wise I think its not officially recommended, but for us it felt fine as we have a good set up (firm mattress on the floor, no gaps, etc) and my toddler basically doesn't move all night. it also felt safer than a different mattress in the same room and have him potentially get into mine and baby's bed during the night. Once the baby got older I would leave them both in the evening and they cuddle up together ❤️

My 2.5 year old is a bit like this, except I don't have a newborn so it's tolerable...

I genuinely think the main problem here is that you're not getting enough sleep. Honestly, I can guarantee that is going to be more damaging for everyone in the long run than him having to pine for you through the night with only his dad for comfort.

I agree with another poster that just you and the baby should get a hotel, or ideally stay with family, for a couple nights a week. From my experience, I'd recommend doing this every week until your son feels his dad's comfort is also acceptable. Obviously if you have family/PIL within an hour's drive that's a more tenable option!

Me and my sons dad have separated and my son got used to accepting him for comfort at night and at bedtime when he started sleeping over there. He actually goes to sleep way easier for his dad than he does for me now... And sleeps through pretty much consistently when he knows I'm not available! If he knows I'm available, he rejects his dad quite brutally 😬

Good luck. Hope you get some sleep soon 🤞🏻

I have 4 children..my phone is always showing me old pictures of the days when we slept with 3 children in one room. Everyone has different experiences. We had 2 beds joined together. It wasn't ideal but everyone slept though the night. If you put in the hard work eventually your son will adjust and sleep without you. For me when they were little I wanted to sleep lol. We did the co sleeping..all 3 are in their own beds as I type this. Number 4 came along and she is between if right now lol.

Good luck. My.number 4 baby was a surprise, it goes so fast.it is very hard. You will sleep again.

We found reframing the reasons why mummy wasn't and never mentioning baby as a reason available helped. So "mummy can't come she's really tired and needs to sleep" worked much better than "mummy can't come she's looking after baby" it's a horrible phase until toddler gets more settled ( we have a 27m age gap). I'd recommend tag teaming - if you can wrangle both of them for a few hours overnight while DH gets some sleep, DH can take both of them for a few hours in the morning while you get some sleep. It's still shit and exhausting but a few hours solid block of sleep for both parents really helps. We also found that toddler would sleep through baby crying, so if there is space for a cot in toddler's room this could help.

I'd take DH out of toddlers room firstly. It's not helping and just making the toddler more upset.
Then I'd either bring his bed into your room (short term solution, to get you some sleep until the baby can go in their own cot)
Or the more sensible solution of putting toddler to sleep in his own room yourself and going to him yourself when he wakes in the night. Yes, it'll be exhausting for you (but it sounds like your not getting any sleep anyway) However he's clearly unsettled and needs his mum at the moment. It's just a phase and won't last. He's had massive changes with the baby coming and is giving strong signals in the night that he isn't coping well and needs your support to get through it. He just needs to know that you are always there and will be there if he needs you. I think if you go to him consistently for a few nights, he'll get over this.

I also think this co sleeping often means no sleeping for exhausted parents. I don't see the need for anyone to sleep in bed with your DS. If it's a single bed he must be squashed and hot with another adult there. He'd probably sleep better on his own. If he wakes up crying one of you go in to settle him then leave again. I used to breastfeed my baby then put them back in their cot alone. They just got used to sleeping alone from birth. I never had any of these screaming tantrums in the night with any of my 3 DC. If they very occasionally woke up crying one of us would offer a small drink then settle them back to sleep. We all need sleep. Give your older DC plenty of attention during the day when baby naps.

Routine of bath, pj's, milk with cuddle then one short story (we found Mr.men were perfect length), then kiss, tuck in . Leave night light on and then put on an audio book and tell him to concentrate on the story so he can tell you in the morning. Try and get some books that show kids sleeping alone in their beds. Sticker charts and lots of praise for staying in bed all night.

I’ve got 2 DC and one on the way. Eldest cosleeps most nights (starts in own bed when dads home but when he’s away often starts in mine) this was never the plan but he’s been having seizures for the last 3 years and he was so scared to sleep, he also has special needs so it is what it is. He was similar though only taking comfort from me at bedtime and during the night and he’s up a lot so it wasn’t sustainable, we had to power through a bit and now he mostly accepts dad for cuddles and bedtime, but again he does cosleep often.
Youngest used to be a terrible sleeper and we had support from the community nursery nurse which was great, we have huge success now at bedtime and through the night with him using a tonie box, if he wakes a quick cuddle from either me or dad and pop one on and the tonie soothes him, he can still hear someone and feels secure. Maybe this could work? Maybe a shirt you’ve worn that smells like you to cuddle?

appreciate I’m not the best person to advise but we will reach out to the CNN again soon to start making a plan for eldest before baby arrives, but whatever we do will have to be done delicately. In the morning we do allow both children to snuggle with us in our bed and watch a bit of tv which they love and is great bonding time, it’s really helped stop any jealousy between eldest and middle as middle doesn’t cosleep.
good luck OP x

I'm a big fan of cosleeping, and it doesn't lead to bad sleep associations. As you've seen, your three year old slept fine until the baby came so this isn't a sleep problem. I'm currently co sleeping with my seven month old and my 2.5 year old (who co slept until 18 months) is in his own bed.
What we did:

• Alternated who did bed time. If he got upset I'd say something like "I love doing bedtime with you too! Daddy is really excited to do bedtime tonight but tomorrow mummy will do it". And stick to it. He needs the reassurance that when you say you will do it tomorrow, you actually will.
• get a grow clock that has different colours for day and night. Say the same sort of thing that ar night time daddy will do cuddles and in the day mummy will give you a really big morning cuddle
• to go to sleep by himself I would start by reading three books rather than four, and then say that you're going to get a drink and will be back in a minute. Make sure you do come back in a minute. Another book of needed. Gradually extend the time you are out of the room (always come back up). Change the last cuddle for a "I love you, sleepy time" from the doorway when he is calm and settled and let him doze off.

Definitely don't cosleep with both (sounds like you are pretty clued up but if not the lullaby trusts safe sleep seven has some excellent tips)

My boys are 2 years apart. I co-slept with both. The eldest wasn't ready to move out of my bed when his brother was born so I had one on either side of me. With the baby in a cot bed on one side to give us more space. They both needed me as much as eachother. I breastfed the baby through the night and cuddled the toddler when needed without having to go anywhere. I did this for about a year and then suddenly without any real efforts my toddler just stopped coming in. I actually miss him sometimes now. I couldn't chose one over the other. Now if the eldest wakes in the night he is more than happy to have a cuddle with daddy.

I feel for you. These times are sooo hard. I think the wee guy is just feeling a bit left out. He can’t understand why baby can sleep with mummy and he can’t. I’ve done so many things ‘wrong’ with my eldest who’s now 10 and still can’t get to sleep himself but I did what I had to do to get through, and you need to do the same !

I think you need to tell your older DS what you expect from him. They are very capable of understanding. But you need to sit him down for a chat, in the daytime when he’s not distressed and crying and talk him through everything. Try telling him fairly simply that:

you love him very much and understand that it’s annoying baby brother is taking so much of mummy’s time at the moment.

But at night he needs to stay in bed, not wake everyone and no screaming for mummy because it’s making everyone very upset and cross.

when you wake at night, remember mummy lives you, will give you big special hugs in the morning and then you close your eyes again and go back to sleep.

Youre a big boy and LD this is what we expect from you.

…then give him your ‘special dressing gown’ to cuddle and remember when he wakes that mummy loves him. And get him periodically to repeat the drill to you.

I think before you decide look at attachment theory. There is obviously a reason for sons behaviour and he is feeling insecure in his attachment and if not handled carefully could be traumatic and have long lasting effects.

Perhaps as others have mentioned sleeping with son in a bed in same room as you could help just temporarily.

Thats horrific telling a 3 year old they are a problem and making everyone upset and cross when he is obviously a sensitive child having attachment issues.

Calm and bright sleep support. They have a great Instagram page with lots of free advice, they give advice if you message them too. We were against sleep training but it saved us and we have 3 kids who sleep well. It's really gentle, you don't leave them to cry and get on with it. Done in such a loving way. It's staffed by former paediatric nurses and they are the loveliest women. Could be worth considering x

You meed to start leaving him to fall asleep by himself. Even if it's a gradual retreat.
He falls asleep thinking you guys ar there and wakes in a panic when your not

You are correct nhs put a post up the other day stating 50% of infant deaths are from co sleeping so clearly it is no more dangerous than them being in a cot provided guidelines for safe sleep are followed , I have seeing the scaremongering around co sleeping and its clear most commentors have absolutely no clue about the 4th trimester

Best thing you can do is not give in to him. If he's always been a mummy's boy and you have tended to every whim without the words no at any point or allowed other people to do things this is what happens. You shouldn't be shifting the responsibility to your husband either because you have a new baby. It's still shared and should continue to be shared so the child knows it's not just one person. If you give on to the tears and screaming he knows that's what he needs to do to get what he wants. Sometimes you have to be a little harsh to promote self soothing and independence. Hubby needs to return to the parents room and your son needs to get used to his space. His space shouldn't be taken over by parents because of a new baby.

I had something similar when my second was born (he’s 6 months now) - my eldest was 2 and had been sleeping in his own room in his own bed since he turned 1 but as predicted, he had trouble adjusting and started waking up once at night and crying for me. He is usually very attached to my husband. I decided the best option was to have him in our big bed, the baby slept in a cot next the bed and my husband slept in toddlers room. He didn’t even wake up when the baby fussed and cried (very poor sleeper and was up every 2 hours for feeding and with colic!). This lasted about a week and then he decided he wanted to sleep in his own room again (probably the noise on a subconscious level). Could you try this? It would mean the baby sleeps in a cot or a bassinet.

If you co-sleep with babies from day 1 you create this problem for yourselves. Doesn't sound like a healthy set-up at all

To be honest he needs routine and what you have going on now sounds confusing. He should be old enough my now to sleep in his own bed in his own room on his own so I would work towards that and your life will get much better at bedtimes

Sympathy as this sounds really hard! Yes ideally your eldest would have learnt to sleep alone before the second came along but even then he might have regressed anyway once baby arrived.

We had this when DC2 was born, DC1 would be hysterical calling for me (despite sleeping alone fine prior) and waking the whole house up again, I remember silently screaming and crying into my pillow in frustration.

I think try to muddle through giving reassurance and going to him until he feels secure again and hopefully settles in a few weeks. Otherwise I think the issue will go on for longer.

As others have said, path of least resistance for now and call on all the help you can to try to get some rest when possible.

This should have been sorted before the new baby but given it wasn’t, you are going to work with what you have.

dc1 feels pushed out by the new baby. Put his bed in your room and get a side cot thing for the baby. Dc1 will feel it’s fair as neither gets to sleep with you. When all is calm and settled in a few weeks try again, with either a reward chart or a visual photo schedule so that it is clear what is happening and with whom.
Use pictures of each stage of the process stuck on a long length of card, and then blue tac next to each stage, the photo of who is is doing it with him. The person doing each stage can then be changed each night.

Be calm and consistent. The second you “give in” you’ve lost the long battle, because all he will learn is if he screams for long enough, he’ll eventually get what he wants - which is where you are now. Reset the situation and try again in a few weeks.

First of all, I know this is really hard for you so I hope you are okay. I’ve only read a few replies but I agree - contact your health visitor!!

Cry it out is a controversial topic and a personal choice. When I had my second, my first was 18 months old and was still in our bed with us. The Health Visitors helped me through a cry it out method but it really isn’t as barbaric as it sounds. The key is that they know you are always there for them when they need but that they are safe to self soothe themselves to sleep. It’s about staying in the room with them but no cuddles - they quickly learn ‘when I scream hysterically, I get picked up by mummy’. You can comfort (rub their back, hold their hand, sing lullaby’s) without picking them up. Day by day you get further from them until finally you are outside the door. They say it takes 7 nights for a new routine to kick in, the first 2/3 nights were extremely hard with not much sleep but after that it got easier and as they said, after a week she was going to bed on her own. My partner was the comfort in the room with ours as I couldn’t fight the instinct to pick her up when she cried, but in your case it may have to be you. I was and still am so grateful for the health visitors advice and help through this as she’s a great sleeper now at 3.

Also wanted to add - when you have a new baby, it’s a completely new time for your other child & when they are young themselves, they can regress. It could just be a temporary stage because your eldest is getting used to sharing the limelight. Though as they have a history of this before baby was here, it’s likely this is just their temperament anyway & he just really needs his mummy! Good luck, I hope it all works out for you. And when you’re in the stick of it like you are, I know it’s cliche but try and remember it isn’t forever! Each stage does change and they grow up so quick before your eyes.