To consider leaving my 3yo to cry for me

[Newmama93]

I have my second DS 5 weeks ago, my first DS was sleeping with my husband consistently for about a year (to get this to happen I had to let him scream for 2 plus hours at bedtime with DH until he finally accepted it) and would call out for him when he woke during the night as I used to work nights. He’d randomly call out for me when I was pregnant and home and I’d go in occasionally (if I didn’t he’d have a meltdown)

since my baby has arrived I’ve been in my bedroom (where I’ve always been) with the baby and my DH has just moved himself into my sons room and attempted to just sleep there all night with him instead of him calling out and I’m also co sleeping with our baby so didn’t want an extra adult in the bed..

my first DS has started to wake up 3/4 times a night and scream for me, my dh leaves the room to get me and my son won’t have him back in. He would tantrum for over an hour so I’ve just been going in, he has a cuddle and goes straight back to sleep. Problem is, he wakes again and if it’s dh back in the bed and not me it starts again he’s screaming mummy where are you! He’s hysterical begging my DH to go and get me.

so I’m breastfeeding second DS every 2 hours by the time I settle and get him back to sleep my son is screaming for me and I’m running on probably an hour overall of broken sleep. I’m so exhausted. I don’t want to leave my son and have my husband say no you can’t have mummy it’s me in this bed as I don’t want him to feel replaced but I can’t have this anymore. I dread nights and bed. I’ve also been putting my son to bed instead of my husband now as he begs me too and goes on and seems sooo upset, but I want my husband to be able too as well.

also… sometimes to get some sleep I’ll go into my sons room while my husband goes in our room and settles baby so it’s probably confusing for us to say no mummy can’t come in this room then at times I am in there.

side note my son has always been a mummys
bot and preferred me but he’s really against his dad at the moment, won’t go anywhere with him without me etc which is such a shame.

what do I do!!!!

Have Your 3 year old in your bed with you. It won't be forever snd it will give him so much reassurance and comfort and then when your baby is 1 no longer feeding in the night you can move them both into their big boy room together!

We co-slept with our DC. The eldest felt replaced aged 5 and had a massive sleep regression when a sibling came along.

Whilst I think co-sleeping is ok, settling him if you can to leave the room at bedtime is important. You need a nice new comfort teddy especially for snuggling with, some calming music or an audio story on a timer and try and get him off to sleep on his own, perhaps with a calming night light on timer. My eldest had a regression during my pregnancy and one of us would walk DC1 back to bed and say "back to bed" and settle DC1 every time with a kiss, tuck DC1 in and say "goodnight, I love you" then leave. No further engaging.

You have my sympathies though, doing this whilst breastfeeding and co-sleeping with your baby will be harder and your DH is going to have to lead on it. I think if you breastfed the baby in there at DS' bedtime then your DS might feel more included and loved. I'm not saying you aren't showing him love but they can get it in their heads that the baby is loved and they aren't as much or at all.

The only other things I'd recommend is a reward chart with an instant reward each morning (maybe choice of something from a box) and trying the bedtime a bit earlier, especially if it can be a little dysfunctional where your DS is protesting. @Newmama93 what time do you start the routine and what time is DS asleep by? My eldest gets up a million times if overtired before falling asleep.

Try reading the sleepeasy solution by i
(I think) Jennifer Waldburger, it might give you insight into why your DS is acting this way and how to help. We used it instead of cry it out, because I can’t stand the crying, and it only took 2-3 nights to break our bad habits with my DD1. Admittedly, she was younger than your DS

Some of these replies are mad - it is not developmentally normal for all children to be confident sleeping alone as a toddler, it takes some children longer than that. There's nothing wrong with cosleeping either (not 'risky' if done safely, unlike what a PP posted). If you have a huge bed I'd cosleep with them both for a while and then transition the toddler back to his bed when your newborn is sleeping in longer stretches. I never never never leave mine to cry though so wouldn't consider that tbh.

Mine was slightly older when her brother came along but I initially let her cosleep (baby in next to me, daughter on the otherside and Daddy relegated to her bed). Then after a few weeks, she just upped and took my old maternity cushion into her room and has slept there again most nights (Daddy got chucked out of her bed) Would that be something to consider?

All of this!!!!!! Couldn't agree more.

I don’t have many tips for your situation sorry- but just to counteract all the harsh anti-cosleepers on here. It’s not ridiculous to be available for a three year old at nighttime, it’s not ridiculous to want to cosleep with an infant or not to give them a bottle overnight if you’re breatsfeeding. I drove myself mad with worrying about comments from people who are so confidently anti cosleeping etc and yet my son has slept perfectly 12 hours a night since he was 2.5, despite me never doing any kind of sleep training or not responding to his nighttime needs. The only thing I did allow was when we started to introduce my partner settling him at bedtime or when he woke, that accepting whilst he might have parental preference for me, his dad loves him and is someone he trusts and wasn’t leaving him alone to cry, so I let go of the guilt that he would be upset preferring me, and allow him and his dad to work out their own way of settling. I think this would probably apply in your situation too, maybe you could keep making time for doing bedtimes with your older child so he gets that snuggly mummy time, but keep a firm line that nighttime wake ups are dealt with by daddy? That way he doesn’t feel totally abandoned by you but also you have a plan to stick to when things are tricky in the middle of the night. I (alternating with my partner) still lie down with my son to get him to sleep at bedtime at nearly 4, I don’t mind doing this and it doesn’t take more than 20-30 mins. And he still sleeps through the night perfectly, so ‘self-settling’ being a thing that must happen for children to sleep is absolute nonsense and please ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. Also my son was a nightmare sleeper up until over 2 years old- so it’s not like I randomly lucked out with an amazing sleeper! I think children will get there in their own time, you can edge things along if it’s totally unsustainable for you all, but trying to stick to being there for them in the night is not a mad position to be coming from at all. Good luck!

Sounds really tough OP but I sort of agree with this. My usual line is “This will pass soon” or “It’s just a phase” which I found comforting at so many points but I must say when I saw you were cosleeping I wondered if it would be similar for your second child and really felt for you. For your eldest, I’d seek advice from HV. If I could afford to, I’d consult a sleep consultant or something. But I get delirious on little sleep so we quickly tried our best to establish a good sleep routine, even when it meant being home early for bedtime. So worth it though. I know the best efforts in the world though don’t always result in them sleeping! All the best!

It’s all very well saying you don’t understand cosleeping and to just not do it as a parent whose child sleeps but for many parents their children won’t sleep through the night no matter what they do so they cosleep so they can actually get some sleep. I never intended to cosleep and didn’t start out that way but my son will wake every 2-3 hours and I cannot keep waking up fully to go to him in his room, I become a moody zombie and I’m a terrible parent the next day. I’m also not going to let him scream for hours every night until he learns to sleep from exhaustion, sleep is supposed to be a safe place so how is he supposed to sleep feeling alone and scared every night? He still starts out in his cot every night but he won’t stay a full night sleeping in there. Count yourself lucky if you’ve never had to cosleep and don’t understand it - it just means your children happen to sleep better than most!

agree- especially a 3 year old who's just had a new sibling- it's such a hard time for them - i'd do anything you can to make him feel secure just now. I like cosleeping though. Do what you need to to make sure you're all happy and rested.

Im expecting this to happen with my 3 y/o when his brother comes along in May. My plan is to have them both in the bed with me. My partner cannot cope with nights so it is what it is. No regrets. He’s a great sleeper so long as he can reach out and touch me!

Its controversial because for sensitive children especially (HSP) can create insecure attachment which can be traumatic snd create life long problems.

This.

Everyone saying just leave him to cry it out or even horrifically one person saying to tell him he's making everyone upset (wtaf) is not appreciating this.

Children have big feelings at this age they don't know how to handle. Not having secure attachment can cause bigger issues down the road. I could see letting him cry and stress would mean bed wetting or similar.

I think you are doing b a good job mama!

keep putting the oldest to bed. He needs some dedicated time. Maybe some daytime too. Maybe try to keep him alone in his ‘big boy’ bed. Point out to the baby, ‘no sorry, you can’t ___ you aren’t a big boy yetI’ (play with trucks, whatver) so your older one hears that the baby does not get everything it wants either.

And yes, just let him cry it out. You aren’t abandoning him, he has dad. You need sleep! And unfortunately you are the only parent that can Breast-feed.

good luck.

Could you express for the baby so your husband can feed baby. Then work on establishing a good sleep routine with your son. I found the "boring" technique worked, once the regular routine pj's teeth cleaned and a story were complete I would avoid eye contact, if he trust to engage conversation lay him back down saying little/nothing, continue to do quiet boring tasks, sorting clothes or sitting in a chair otherwise engaged.
Ensure there is a good wind down before bed, low stimulation etc bath and milky drink. If you have to get up in the night keep it "boring" perhaps a night light etc. Likely due to a new baby, so lots of cuddles reassurance during the day!

I don’t know how to copy in someone’s message but someone had said they didn’t have these difficulties as their babies slept in a cot beside them like a snuzpod etc. and I do agree. Once you bring them in the bed it would be hard to get them back out. You just need to build a strict routine maybe do something to tire out your wee boy so he goes to sleep quite easily but you can’t give in. There shouldn’t be any adults you our dad in the boys room as that is confusing for him especially if you’re both taking turns as he’s only wee and will know of screams for long enough yous are going to give in. So just tired him out put him to bed say night night and he will get used to it and on a few nights probably enjoy having a good nights sleep as well. Get the wee baby in a cot beside you the snuzpod was great as the side comes down so they feel like they are in the bed but they are not and then when they move into their own cot at 6 months you’ll not have this issue. I feel like the boy is walking it is habit and you the adult need to break it in a healthy way again what someone else said put him down to bed say night night tuck him in kisses and cuddles see you in the morning and if he calls out etc leave him for a few min and gradually built it up don’t take any crap you might feel cruel but honestly it will only be for a few nights if you power through and it will be worth it in the long run

Think about a routine which is reasonable and will maximise sleep for you all. Then be consistent with it. Your 3 year old is unsettled because of the new baby but it will settle down to fewer wake ups. I got a sidecar cot for the baby, did mummy's turn and daddy's turn at bedtime which we enforced and 3 year old would come in between us at night when they woke in the king size bed. Over time they stopped coming in at all. I don't agree that you need to make them go to sleep on their own, I stayed with my oldest until age 7 and stay until my 5 year old is asleep still. Oldest hasn't woken in the night for years (despite me staying with them to go to sleep), youngest either sleeps through or wakes once and comes into our bed. It's developmental. We all sleep fine.

This sound so tough, I really recommend speaking to your HV about your DS. It sounds like your DS is struggling to adapt to the new baby and having to share you with his sibling. Your HV can give advice on that and his sleeping.

I only have the one child but when my DS went into his own room and I went back to work (and needed the sleep) he became horrendous with his sleep and wanting to be with us in our bed. We did start to cosleep and I loved it initially, but he actually kept us awake more in bed with us and we couldn’t continue it, but by then he wouldn’t go back to his own bed and he screamed and screamed. I didn’t have a breastfeeding newborn to contend with as well so I really sympathise with you OP.

I called our HV in tears as we were at our wits end. She gave some amazing advice suited to our situation (for example, I flat out refused to consider cry it out). It took us a few weeks of sticking to her suggestions, and it got worse before it got better (lots of nights sleeping on cold bedroom floors awkwardly holding little hands through cot bars) but we did see a huge improvement.

I’d have a kind, calm talk with DS1 in quite a grown up manner. Explain Mummy is so tired as DS2 needs feeding all night long. He wakes Mummy but it’s not his fault as he needs feeding and that’s what I used to do for you too. But it does make Mummy so so tired. So I am so proud of my amazing big boy who doesn’t want to wake Mummy up and make me even more tired but knows it’s important Mummy can sleep when not feeding. Thankyou so much for being such a good boy that when you do wake up you think of something nice and go back to sleep by yourself as you’re so good. Then you and me can spend some really special time together in morning. Etc etc

Id just really go overboard with the praise, the positives, put the thoughts of his projected good behaviour on him as if it’s already reality and present as if you two are working together. I think he will want you to be proud and see this as his little mission too.
sleep is SO important. But this won’t last forever I promise! X

I think the ‘harsh anti co-sleepers’ just understand how important sleep is for every member of the family. Including a mother that has just given birth. You’ve had some good advice here. You can choose to ignore it. I kind of think sadly if you go down the co-sleeping route then you need to accept broken sleep and some kind of musical beds every night - so exhausting.

Babies from a certain age do need to learn how to fall asleep by themselves. They also need to learn to settle themselves back to sleep when they wake up rather than cry out for a parent. There are a few different methods to do this.

Oh absolutely re: your first sentence. My DC was happier with what would be deemed by many on here a strict sleep routine. And my marriage was better as we weren’t exhausted trying to settle a screaming baby anymore. Everyone benefits from a good sleep routine: babies, parents and siblings. But I know how much of a battle it can be and how it really isn’t easy to establish something. We have to do what we gotta do.

I was in a similar situation, we bought a super king size bed and co sleeped. My friend was determined not to co sleep and got up over 50 times to settle her child over two nights and her husband was off so she could catch up on sleep. It worked and he slept in his own bed there after. There’s no right or wrong way, only that you all get sleep. We actually missed our boy when he decided to sleep in his own bed. We didn’t miss the fidgeting though🤣 whatever works for you and your family ❤️

Wow thanks so much for the replies everyone! He’s not 3 until end of March so was 2.8 when his bro came along. He’s handled it sooo well overall I’m super proud of him. Always try and include him, when I chat with baby I’m always saying you’ve got the best big brother etc, never blaming why I can’t do something on his brother. Just seems his challenges are coming out / showing themselves with sep anxiety to me!!

anyway he didn’t wake me up the last two nights! He fell asleep on the lounge first night and last night in the car on the way home from FILS. So maybe I’ll try and let him doze off on the lounge, who bloody knows haha but no way I’ll let him CIO. I’m going to try the chart for my turn to put him to bed and then dads turn and see if that gets DH back into the routine. As at the moment DH basically can’t even talk to him without him yelling no daddy, mummy!

I went through two years of sleep hell with him with so so many wakes. He’s quite a sensitive kid. but I’ll always support my children when they are distressed (unless I have a 10yo screaming out for mummy lol)

thanks again to everyone! It’s made me feel less alone: I’ll update in a couple weeks for anyone in same spot x

If you want your husband to do to bedtime then let him do it. Prepare your son that you take it in turns, and you’ll do him tomorrow. And hold to that, it’s okay for him to be upset with your DH there. Overnight, I’m sorry but you cannot go in if you have a newborn to feed that isn’t sustainable. Either move DS into your room in his own bed (if you have space) or you husband goes to bed in your DS’ room and does all night wakings with him. You’re going to make yourself ill otherwise! You need sleep. You cannot do everything and be everything to everyone

You probably won’t want to hear this but you need a ‘radical’ and consistent new arrangement and routine. I’m hoping by you posting for advise and help that you’ll be willing to try something completely different:

• Baby sleeps in a ‘next to me’ crib. Get them out for feeds throughout the night, feed to sleep and then return them to the cot.
• Husband moves back into bed with you. He can’t help with bf but can help with midnight nappy changes
• 3 year old sleeps in his ‘big boy’ bed by himself. Set a consistent routine every night. Same bedtime, split between parents (Dad does toilet, teeth, pjs, mum does milk, story and goodnight kiss. Get him a night light (the galaxy ones on the ceiling are good) and a tonie box. Those Gro clocks are good at teaching them night for day so when they’re allowed to get up at morning time. Don’t ignore him if he needs you in the night but ask him what he needs and if it’s a 5 min cuddle then make sure you do that and explain you have to go back to bed.

Good luck xx