To consider leaving my 3yo to cry for me

[Newmama93]

I have my second DS 5 weeks ago, my first DS was sleeping with my husband consistently for about a year (to get this to happen I had to let him scream for 2 plus hours at bedtime with DH until he finally accepted it) and would call out for him when he woke during the night as I used to work nights. He’d randomly call out for me when I was pregnant and home and I’d go in occasionally (if I didn’t he’d have a meltdown)

since my baby has arrived I’ve been in my bedroom (where I’ve always been) with the baby and my DH has just moved himself into my sons room and attempted to just sleep there all night with him instead of him calling out and I’m also co sleeping with our baby so didn’t want an extra adult in the bed..

my first DS has started to wake up 3/4 times a night and scream for me, my dh leaves the room to get me and my son won’t have him back in. He would tantrum for over an hour so I’ve just been going in, he has a cuddle and goes straight back to sleep. Problem is, he wakes again and if it’s dh back in the bed and not me it starts again he’s screaming mummy where are you! He’s hysterical begging my DH to go and get me.

so I’m breastfeeding second DS every 2 hours by the time I settle and get him back to sleep my son is screaming for me and I’m running on probably an hour overall of broken sleep. I’m so exhausted. I don’t want to leave my son and have my husband say no you can’t have mummy it’s me in this bed as I don’t want him to feel replaced but I can’t have this anymore. I dread nights and bed. I’ve also been putting my son to bed instead of my husband now as he begs me too and goes on and seems sooo upset, but I want my husband to be able too as well.

also… sometimes to get some sleep I’ll go into my sons room while my husband goes in our room and settles baby so it’s probably confusing for us to say no mummy can’t come in this room then at times I am in there.

side note my son has always been a mummys
bot and preferred me but he’s really against his dad at the moment, won’t go anywhere with him without me etc which is such a shame.

what do I do!!!!

Would a next2me or something for the baby work, then they'd be safe in their own bit of the bed in case the 3 year old wanted to come to you?

We have always let our daughter come into our bed when she needs to. We've had some stages when she was in our bed every night and I thought it would never end, but it was important to me to be available to her when she needed me. For me, not coming to them in the night when I do in the day is confusing behaviour, night times are frightening for little ones, it's dark and lonely and dreams are weird things.

Training a child in their own room all night is a popular thing and people will tell you it's the only way for them to get enough sleep, but them wanting to be near you is a built-in survival instinct which is stronger in some kids than others.

At @User13579367337 safe co-sleeping is NOT risky and "against most guidelines", stop propounding ignorance.

Having the toddler in her bed with the younger one would be but she is not doing that.

The baby is five weeks old. This is not developmentally appropriate and it certainly won't get the OP the sleep she needs.

I'm fairly sure if I had tried some of the suggestions in this thread my daughter would have screamed until she was sick and would have made an association and starting the bedtime routine would have triggered the same thing every night.

Is he old enough to understand a now and next type picture chart? have photos of you and your husband and velcro it onto the different bits of bedtime on alternating nights, so he knows that tonght is daddy doing teeth and story, then mummy will come and cuddle for a bit, tomorrow is mummy doing teeth and story then daddy will come and cuddle, so he gets used to daddy doing all the bits with the security of knowing you're coming back for the next bit?

noones getting any sleep at the moment. co sleeping with a newborn can be done safely, but obviously not in the middle of a bed with others in it, but with baby in crook of arm at one side, id say was how most mother and babys have slept since forever.
You do not have to teach children to sleep alone. Its a developmental stage for many. Forcing a small child to sleep alone can be traumatic. The child is really distressed about this. He needs his mum to be able to sleep. What on earth is the point of fighting this. My children are all a lot older than this now, and are teens and young adults, but Ive always let them sleep in my bed whenever theyve needed me. Kids grow up more independent and secure when their basic needs have been met when tiny.

This is a great idea!

we had a reward chart but he was too little to fully grasp it. I’ll try this, issue is if it’s daddy’s turn and then right as it’s time for him to go to bed he will have a meltdown and I’ll just have to stick to it with DH dragging him into bed because that’s the only way he’ll get into the room. But within a few days he’ll know on daddy’s nights we mean it’s definitely daddy. Still not sure how that’ll revise the many night call outs and him kicking my husband out from the bed!

Or a wild notion from me - can you sleep with your toddler and husband brings baby in for feeds, night nanny style?

It will over the long term help your baby learn to settle without being fed. It might get your toddler over this current abandonment fear - so could also be temporary.

I wouldn’t personally get tough with your toddler right now - most kids go through some difficulties when they get a baby sibling and it’s not because they are bad, it’s because they are feeling loss/abandonment.

It will get better than this, however you go about it!

I don't understand how if you do co sleeping you reject one child for the new one? He's already going to feel pushed out and this just reinforces it. Either sleep with both or don't start with the baby get a next to me cot and do somesettling with each parent.

Yes, you need to be firm. He has to learn to fall asleep on his own - this is key. He will kick off big time but you have to stay firm and not give in. Mine was about 2 when we did this. The first night he got out of bed over 40 times. The next about 20. The next only a few. By about night 5 we’d sorted it.

Start on a night when you can sleep the next day - Friday night is probably best for most. Get prepared. Get shopping in beforehand so you can rest and recover the next day. At 3 he should be able to understand an explanation (earlier on) that not having sleep is tiring everyone. He won’t like it, but he needs to be told that the screaming has to stop and he needs to go to bed sensibly. Two stories and a cuddle, and then you leave the room. No lengthy conversations at bedtime - just short firm reminders that it’s bedtime.

I let my 3 year old sleep with me and I put my baby in a next to me crib. I would breast feed baby in bed laying down until she fell asleep and transferred her to the next to me crib. If a next to me crib doesn't work for you then you could try something like this?

My son was the same when I had new baby, he was 2.5. I don't really have any advice but it does get better, baby is 6 months old now and my son has reduced wakes to once a night. It's tough but you will get through this. Will baby take a bottle? Might be an idea, even for just a night so you can get some rest, if your dh could take the baby and you sleep in with your son.

Now and next stuff has helped us SO MUCH, especially when she's feeling unsettled by something. It makes things nice and predictable for them.

Another thing that has really helped us is working out what the trigger is for meltdowns that are the type that are triggered by an event and working out how to avoid that trigger for a few repeats. Either meeting them halfway or having a distraction so eg if daddy getting my daughter into the bedroom was consistently triggering a meltdown I'd introduce a bedtime routine for a cuddly toy, or a job for my daughter to do which involves her taking herself through the door and avoiding the trigger point of dad carrying her in (bonus points if the job involves something she's not normally allowed to do like doing the lightswitch). Or I would start with me coming too but daddy doing all the things.

The more settled and secure he feels, the better he will sleep and the night calls will get rarer. Everything is temporary, sleep ones just feel like they go on forever! you've got this! x

Ayleston is right, you are making this worse with all this pandering and people sleeping in random rooms.

put your oldest to bed explaining he must not shout out at night unless it is a emergency as you need to sleep.

dad sleeps in your room or on the sofa. But not in son’s room. Every time he gets up in the night, he’s returned to his bed. If he shouts out husband goes. If he cries, he cries, he puts him straight back to bed with the same words you choose each time “it’s night time. Mummy and daddy need sleep, night night. We will play in the morning” ignore all screaming.

when baby is older and moves to the same room repeat. Do not keep up all this bed hopping. The only people I know who’s kids still get up and down and bed hop all night are the ones allowed to do so from babyhood and their parents are broken

is it also pandering if your child is distressed and you respond to them in the day time? 🤔
I disagree completely with the 'you need to teach them to go to sleep on their own' attitude. They know how to do that. What they are being taught is not to bother seeking comfort at night because they won't get it.

DS has significant separation anxiety but we've had to be firm that Daddy does some things because otherwise I would not have ever been able to leave him. It has got much better over time. I think the key in your case is consistency. So if you want it to be DH all night every night then do that and stick with it. If you want to alternate then a firm 'it's Daddy tonight' and no giving in. Longer term it will be good for him to accept your DH doing some of his care and meeting his needs, and for you to get the sleep you need.

Maybe because I’m up every 2 hours with a hard to settle baby? Im not closing the newborn because I prefer it. My newborn son needs me constantly, I also never slept with my toddler. If I could sleep with my toddler all night I would, I’d sleep 10 hours it’d be great but I can’t as I have a tiny baby to constantly attend too. Pretty silly question

For some reason, some posters do stick the boot in when you have a new baby and an older child. It’s horrible, same thing happened to me with the same poster

I don’t think leaving a child to cry is ever a good idea, and will definitely cause them stress!

We only have 1 but one that doesn't like sleep.

We got a good routine in the evening that got her sleeping in her own room. It involved 2 of us. We are in the position that we think we can push a bit of independence so we are alternating days so either me or my partner does bed time. At the moment we are needing to give a strong reason for why mummy isn't there. The first day I pretended to be more late home from work. I got home just before she went up to bed and I stayed in the car for 15 minutes so she had settled upstairs when I creeped in. The next time dad took the bed time as I had a migraine so mummy couldn't do it because she had a poorly head. This was only the second day that I didn't do it recently and she accepted this reason more readily than she has done previously.

Over nights we are trying to stay out of her bed when she wakes. I'm not a saint and after 30-45 minutes of screaming and over an hour of quiet awake I get in with her. We have done it for 2 weeks so far and after the first 2 days when she really wasn't happy with the new arrangements it's been once a week that I have had to get in with her. We keep trying to slowly push her independence. Keep with dad doing the bulk of the work over night but find some ground rules for you stepping in and doing a swap.

It's very normal developmentally for the toddler to feel displaced by a sibling and this usually settles down in a few months as your new schedule becomes the norm. A couple of thoughts:

A) Although all of us sleep best in total darkness, if he is having anxious nights right now, do you have a nightlight for him? Just so that he doesn't wake in a panic and not understand what's happening in the dark.

B) Create really positive associations with his dad. For example, to help him sleep well, before starting his bedtime routine they can spend time 1 on 1 doing something your toddler loves: going to the park/outside in the garden for 20 minutes, playing a game he loves etc etc just whatever creates a strong positive association with DH. You can both also big this time up by you saying "You're so lucky! Daddy's taking you to the park again!" and DH saying "I can't wait for our special take again, this is going to be fun tonight!". He obviously definitely needs 1 on 1 time with both of you during the day to reassure him of your attention.
He could even get a small sweet treat if it makes him super excited to be with his dad.
Hopefully as he creates a stronger more positive bond with his dad he will feel less anxious to find he is sleeping with him when he wakes up. Make sure dad is giving him plenty of physical touch, hugs and kisses so he doesn't just associate that physical comfort with you.

C) Make sure if he stays with you instead you make it as boring as possible, stay stuff like "oh if only you could play with daddy tonight, we'll just need to fold these towels instead" - or whatever.

D) It also has the added bonus of getting him extra tired before bedtime - it must be BEFORE his bedtime routine, not when he is in PJs or anything.

My two year old went through a phase of waking in the middle of the night after I had my second DC and calling for me. My DH dealt with him every time he got out of bed and told him “mummy’s sleeping, let’s go back to bed” etc. kept it calm and reassuring but didn’t give in. Only lasted a couple of weeks and sleep was back to normal. I would honestly just encourage your DH to completely take over night time duties with your three year old and he will settle eventually. I suspect the lack of consistency is making things worse.

Hard question to ask but is the crying real or for effect? I ask this of a mother of a three year old who starts to cry and kick off if I say it's daddy's turn to do bedtime. Then if I do it - crying stops immediately.

It's still feels like a kick in the stomach to here my son cry even when I know it's really to get his own way but we are started to be consistent by staying no it's daddies turn etc.

We also 'lie' as well. Lat night it was daddy's turn, he cried and I said mummy is going to work now walked out the door and stood in the garden for 5 mins before going back in. He accepted that so that I what we do.

Sleeping on his own is tough though I struggle with this one as we adults don't always want to sleep alone. However he was got your husband. Mummy smelling teddy bear? I did this with one of my babies - gave them a comforter that smelled of me.

Also - I have a 3 and 5 year old. When the 3 year old was newborn - all wakes up from the elder child were on my husband. You can't do both:

Most of us have had multiple children and babies that don't sleep mine fed 2 hourly night and day but your eldest doesn't understand have you tried expressing and letting dad have a go?

I was talking about the 3yo ffs 😂

I have a 3.5 year old son and a 5 month old son. Luckily my eldest is back to having a daddy moment but I ended up having both boys with me for a bit and hubby slept in eldests bed.