to object to other parent's vile racist remarks in the nursery playground?

[grimupnorth]

We recently moved to a new area and dd (just 3) has started at the nursery attatched to the primary school round the corner. Its on a council estate that has a bit of a 'reputation' but tbh that doesn't bother me, the school is lovely nd small and the staff seem excellent. DD loves it there and is making friends, but I'm having problems with the other parents.

Basically they refuse to speak to me. Its not paranoia, they really do and have done since the first morning when I dropped her off. They just give me dirty looks and don't reply when I say hello. Only one of them acknowledges me, and she runs the local shop so isn't going to be rude to the customers! Its a close community and they all know each other etc etc, and I'm an outsider with a posh accent, pink hair, and a faceful of piercings. I can live with being ignored, but...

Today when we were waiting to go in to drop the dc's off, two of the women started having a conversation about a recent trip one of them had had to make with her ds. She was basically bitching about how carp the treatment was, but then these comments were made:

"The place was full of Asians pretending to have heart attacks so they'd get seen first"

"Next time I go I'll be boot polishing our faces to get better treatment"

"The bloody Arabs want to piss off back home and stop bleeding our hospitals dry"

This was in front of children, and I was furious. I picked up dd and carried her to the other end of the playground to look at the daffodils, and I could feel them (the mothers not the daffodils!) watching me. I felt really uncomfortable, I wanted to say something but tbh I was worried about getting smacked - they are pretty tough aggressive women.

I'm quite ashamed of myself for not having the guts to stand up and say something at the time but didn't want dd to see me get into an argument, or to do it on school grounds. I'm going to put in a complaint to the head tomorrow - is this OTT?

fwiw I would say calling someone a racist (without plenty of justification) is a personal attack.
having been called a racist on here myself, I would say it is a pretty devastating and revolting accusation, and a very hurtful one, and one that you shold think very carefully before making.

Racist is bandied around much too freely on here.
It's ridiculous

What racist comments have there been on this thread? Apart from the OP's original comments?

btw I am not a racist for the avoidance of doubt.

Message withdrawn

I do think that the Head can help. Our Head makes very sure there is a zero tolerance policy for bullying and for racism. I'd rather see/hear racism driven underground than be allowed to be openly expressed in schools and workplaces. We don't encounter any bigotry of that nature but again perhaps there are other reasons for that.

Gawd!

Desi was talking from an intellectual point of view rather than an emotional one as far as I can see.

And Lulah, are you sure about that? And children from which countries?

Exactly PuppyMonkey.

I'm repeating many others before me here: nobody has defended the women in the playground, nobody has endorsed racism and nobody else has accused Desi of racism.

Thank god it wasnt Desi and QM in the playground!!!!!!this thread shows what a sensitve subject racism is to us all !!

Here are my posts, in order: I don't see any personal attacks, although I agree I do feel strongly. But hey, racism does that to some people!

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 19:46:58
I t sounds awful and it IS illegal: it's incitement to racial hatred. I would tell the head and I WOULD ask them to mention it to the parents. So Desiderata, I'm afraid freedom of speech doesn't extend to breaking the law.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:11:25
PERSPECTIVE on the subject of racism desiderate? really? so what, can I call someone a paki and it;s all right, because they just need to 'get some perspective'? How can you defend it? Or are you saying you're racist and you think it's ok?

I really think why tf should the OP have to move or in any way change her views when OTHER people are being racist and vile? THEY are the ones that should be censored and shut tf up.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:14:26
but it's the principle. Why do people NOT challenge absolute vile racism like this where they hear it? Why's it considred over the top of object to some people saying LOUDLY in a public place that a "place was full of Asians pretendng to have heart attacks"?

"Bloody arabs want to piss off home?" THAT'S CONSIDERED OK? What planet are you lot on defending these women?

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:15:59
No, you sound racist. If you're not do tell me so but in the light of your comments I think it a fair assumption as you appear to be defending these comments as free speech. Tell me if I've got it wrong.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:17:47
My point wasn't that anyone shoulsd call the police. My point was that actually, racism is not tolerated in this country in a lot of ways and that is protected by law via incitement to racial hatred being an offence. So it's NOT Ok.
Amd free speech doesn't cover it imo.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:18:32
Er not true but you Desiderata seem to be saying it's ok because it's free speech. I beg to differ.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:19:38
and you don't have to defend yourself, I couldn't care less if you do or not, but if you think these kind of comments are covered by 'free speech' then I reserve my right to think you racist.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:23:13
And yes, I absolutely have spoken up when I've heard racist comments.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:26:15
Actually Desdireata said (and remember we're talking about "Arabs piss off home" comments)

"Regardless of your personal values, and they're worthy values, other people have a right to express their own. It's called freedom of speech, I'm afraid." I disagree, strongly

and

"I really do think some perspective is called for on the whole subject of racism."

Oh ok, alright to say that Arabs should piss off home, silly me, I need to get some perspective. Durr.

I would say that's defending the right of these women to say this stuff.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:33:08
Desiderata, I haven't personally attacked you. I have surmised your views from your posts and invited you to disagree with me if I've misinterpreted them. And you haven't given me any evidence to make me change my mind so I won't withdraw my comments I'm afraid. You can report them if you like.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:39:32
what's well thought out and sensible about saying

"ARABS SHOULD PISS OFF HOME" is ok because of freedom of speech?

or

People should get some perspective about racism?

Sorry, I don't see any well thought out arguments from Desiderata.

And yes, I am quite intolerant of racism. And sexism. Gosh, how terrible of me.

I do feel for the OP, it's a horrible situation and this thread demonstrates why it's so difficult to do anything abuot it whne it happens to you.

By TheQueenMother on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:43:26
Hang on, yes, I do feel strongly about this. And yes, I do feel there have been racist comments on this thread but all I have done is disagree, I haven't attacked anyone personally (other than disagree strongly with their VIEWS, which is a fdifferent matter entirely). I'm going to copy and paste all my posts so you can tell I haven't attacked anyone.

There's a diff between strong disagreement and slagging off/personal attack.

Too true, MrsR.

QM, you are reacting to my posts quite hysterically, so I can only assume that you have been the victim of racism yourself.

It might help if you talked about it here, because it sounds to me that you need to let something out of your system.

Calm down girls, calm down!!!! I can totally understand why things are getting so hot under the collar. I don't think anyone has been racist on here. I do however, think that some people (NOT here) use the whole freedom of speech thing as an excuse for racism. I blame the media though, we are pumped full of how shit things are economically. um, there is a world wide recession looming, catastrophic admin fuck ups, and yes, immigration is not being handled well from anyone's point of view. I constantly hear from the older generation when they are rightly bemoaning the fact that they have to wait months for treatment on the NHS, council tax going up etc, blaming immigrants, it makes my blood boil because all i hear is"ah well if i were xyz they would just give me a house and pay my rent, bla bla bla". These are otherwise respectable people spouting these abhorrant views. They have only got it from one place, and that is the TV, and newspapers, OK so that is Two places

As for the OP, i would have kept my mouth firmly shut, they sound like an awful bunch of ignorant fuckwits and you probably would end up having one of them punch you in the face or something. You are not going to change their views im afraid, and saying anything will probably only make things worse as that sort of woman loves a good drama. Sadly, their children will be force fed those views at home. If it were me, and i had the option, i would change schools if it is that much of an issue.

Lets not let this get personal, i would hate to even think that people considered me racist and i hate racism with a vengance, so can totally understand why some posters are getting upset here.

TheQueenMother: are you Jeremy Kyle?

Oh gawd I only went for a fag and a biscuit and its all gone mad.

I don't see racism from any posters on this thread.

abslutely in my london borough only children from certain ethnic groups can now have the BCG in schools at 13-14years old.
Bizarre three of my five kids have had it!
Some boroughs give it to babies at birth from the ethnic groups mentioned ( i am not sure which are eligible).
I am told by my gp i cannot pay privately for it and only if we travel to particular countries regularly can our kids have it.
I was told by a friend if we visited Turkey regularly we could!

have not read all the post. but would second all who say mention to the head teacher. the more schools that embrace properly 'what is special about us all being different as well as what is good about being the same' and start to try to instil those value in their pupils, the better. having a racist parent does not have to mean have a racist child. my sister best friend has a racist father but she was not especially as my sister is brown!

Desi - careful please.

I have been on the receiving end of racist comments (even as a child). People deal with these things differently.

I saw your comments as being on an intellectual level rather than on an emotional one (which is easy if you haven't recently been disturbed by something)

Oyh yes of course, if I am excised about racism, I must be a victim and need to talk about it. what? I think racism is a concern for everyone

and I don't think it's ok to say things like 'arabs shold piss off home ' and then say it's ok because of free speech

Nobody else thinks it's ok either.

"It is a sentiment I have heard many times, from many different people"

I'm sure that's true but I never get to hear things like that. I work hard at it to be sure.

I am happy in my world, where I don't have to come face to face with any form of brutality or Daily Mail readers ...

lulah, i'm not sure what you are trying to say here. In my ignorance i can't actually remember what the BCG protects againts, but the reason for allocating vaccines might be dependent upon risk factors which may be a result of country of origin or the likelihood of visiting certain countries. I dont think it is an issues of mollycoddling the immirgrants.

Yet again, I repeat-No one said it was ok, QM.

But it's real life...

If anyone can remember what that is