to object to other parent's vile racist remarks in the nursery playground?

[grimupnorth]

We recently moved to a new area and dd (just 3) has started at the nursery attatched to the primary school round the corner. Its on a council estate that has a bit of a 'reputation' but tbh that doesn't bother me, the school is lovely nd small and the staff seem excellent. DD loves it there and is making friends, but I'm having problems with the other parents.

Basically they refuse to speak to me. Its not paranoia, they really do and have done since the first morning when I dropped her off. They just give me dirty looks and don't reply when I say hello. Only one of them acknowledges me, and she runs the local shop so isn't going to be rude to the customers! Its a close community and they all know each other etc etc, and I'm an outsider with a posh accent, pink hair, and a faceful of piercings. I can live with being ignored, but...

Today when we were waiting to go in to drop the dc's off, two of the women started having a conversation about a recent trip one of them had had to make with her ds. She was basically bitching about how carp the treatment was, but then these comments were made:

"The place was full of Asians pretending to have heart attacks so they'd get seen first"

"Next time I go I'll be boot polishing our faces to get better treatment"

"The bloody Arabs want to piss off back home and stop bleeding our hospitals dry"

This was in front of children, and I was furious. I picked up dd and carried her to the other end of the playground to look at the daffodils, and I could feel them (the mothers not the daffodils!) watching me. I felt really uncomfortable, I wanted to say something but tbh I was worried about getting smacked - they are pretty tough aggressive women.

I'm quite ashamed of myself for not having the guts to stand up and say something at the time but didn't want dd to see me get into an argument, or to do it on school grounds. I'm going to put in a complaint to the head tomorrow - is this OTT?

lol...I love the use of hysterical!personally I would have confronted the sad bitches (wonder how hysterical that is?..lol)...so you truly feel it's acceptable in a school playground to say Arabs should 'Piss off home' then Desi?...

Desi likes Bernard Manning and reads the Daily Mail

Nuff said

Lulah, if you live in London or any other large city in the UK ALL babies/toddlers regardless of ethnic background were offered a free TB jab.

I don't know which ethnic backgrounds you are referring to but I think it's reasonable for children who come from a country with a higher incidence of TB to be given priority (afaik TB is rare in the UK, therefore keep it that way)

How can those revolting comments that the playground women made be construed as "inciting racial hatred"?

If they had gone round the playground handing out leaflets, or asking parents to join them in forming a posse to go up the hospital and shout outside at "all the Asians faking heart attacks" or to tell the "bloody Arabs to piss off home" then that would be incitement.

But unfortunately two bigoted and xenophobic women are entitled to have a 'private' conversation, even if the content is racist and distasteful. Doesn't make it right but it is legal.

Just because someone has the opinion does not mean it's right or acceptable...people will always be arse-holes it's up to other people to 'educate' these people imo...if you say or do nothing ...it won't change

Message withdrawn

magicfarawaytree - lol at brown sister mum mum is brown too.

My mum, although half spanish, was born white, due to a serious medical condition in her twenties she has dark skin and appears black. Since then she has been threatened with a knife on more than one occasion and told to "fuck off back where she came from", she has received no end of verbal abuse and general sarcastic comments about her colour. I even had incidents at school where children took the piss (although to be fair, that was more due to the fact that they didnt understand that a white person can turn black). She is 73 now, and her views are somewhat old fashioned and im sad to say that she is one of the older generation who whines about immigrants being the soul cause of all our problesm (i shudder to say this but i remember when i was little and Moira stewart was reading the news her turing to my father and saying _ look, this country is full of bloody darkies now!! , my mum is blacker than moira stewart will ever be ).

I would also like to add that racism is bloody rife, i have come across it in people from all walks of life, sometimes i challenge it, sometimes i have to bite my tongue. Because of my mother being victimised solely becuase of the colour of her skin it is something i feel very strongly about.

Just because some people think thias way and say this stuff doesn;t imo mean it's ok to let it go unchallenged.

but I can see I'm alone in this view. And I am being called all sorts of names here (hysterical, dopey views, fuckwit) because I don't think free speech covers ""arabs should piss off home" and because no, I don't think people should 'get some perspective' about racism. I think they should get challenged, personally.

The convo wasn't that private..lol..it was in a public place...with children fcol...I pity their children

Why do you think you are alone in this view QM?

Sodge, my point was not that they could be arrested, more that as a society we HAVE largely, decided that racism is wrong and unacceptable. If you discriminate against someone at work because of their race you can find yourself in a tribunal. (scary! not). If you hand out leaflets incting racial hatred you could be prosecuted (unlikely I know). So my point wasn't that the law applied per se, more than actually, free speech doesn't cover the right to say exactly what you want to anyone, any time, not quite. And that I don't think 'free speech' transalates to it's ok to say 'arabs piss off home'

I think QM's just got it in for Desi tbh. I think you've really misinterpreted her posts, QM.

I wouldn't confront a dog arse rough racist in playground full of children. Or any sort of racist actually - small children don't need to be within earshot of that sort of conversation. They don't know what racism is and the longer it takes for the concept to hit them, the better.

I agree with you QueenMother

Message withdrawn

I have to say I think the freedom of speech idea is on thin ground here.

How on earth can anyone defend the 'right' of these women to be foul mouthed and racist in a school playground? How?

I can see that its not actually inciting racial hatred now, and not actually illegal. But I take issue with the idea that they had the right to say what they said, in the presence of others who were offended by it, and children who should not have to hear it, in a school.

Quattro, are you deliberately trying to cause trouble here?

I said I liked Bernard Manning (many, many months ago) to raise a reaction ... it's called shit-stirring, or having a larf.

I defend DM readers occasionally because I think that of all the ethnic groups, DM readers get treated the most poorly. I don't actually read any newspapers, as I think I have pointed out to you on several occasions.

I seem to recall that you have also called me a racist on more than one occasion. Fortunately for both yourself and QM, I am happy in the knowledge that I am not.

Now if you don't mind, I'm off to watch the next installment of Numbers.

Desi posted from an 'intellectual' pov? Goodness, I think your definition and mine might differ somewhat.

Thing is QM, whilst i agree with you, people categorically must not hide behind freedom of speech to spout racist filth, the OPs situation is sensitive. She is new to the area, the sort of women who she were talking about would have probably shouted her down anyway and it could easily turned nasty. That is also a case of putting things into perspective. A more constructive course of action for the OP, as already suggested is to join the PTA, where a, she hopefully wont have to put up with that sort of bullshit, b) can open up discussions in a better suited environment than the school playground.

Racism and biggotry is never going to go away im afraid, the only tool against it is education.

I agree with you grimupnorth, I don't tihnk they do have the right to say it. And I do think they should be challenged. But this thread just goes to show how hard it can be.

"I defend DM readers occasionally because I think that of all the ethnic groups, DM readers get treated the most poorly."

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

I was answering mercy.

I posted previously as to why IMO a lot of people seem to make racist comments when deep down they are not racists just feel unfairly treated sometimes. Read my other post.

With regard to the injection it used to be given to all children in the uk and the disease was irradicated.Tuberculosis.TB.A killer.
With our recent levels of immigration the disease is now rife in the uk and IMO all children should still recieve it.
However there is not enough so only children from certain ethnic origin are eligible to receive it leaving several other uk resident children open to the disease.

I do not know how a fair allocation could be organised but do think its unfair when i can only immunise some of my children .

Was only giving example of how unfair situations can get people making rash comments.Nothing more.

Message withdrawn

Yes, they shouldn't have said it.

But they do have the right to say it.

Take away that right and where do you end up?

LEM, I don't necessarily think the OP should have challenged them immediately or taken up cudgels straight away or anythign, really, I don't.

But I don't necessarily think the best advice for :

"Help! racist remarks today in the playground, it was hurtful"

is

"join the PTA, bake a few cakes, that'll make it better" (tongue in my cheek but ykwim)