to object to other parent's vile racist remarks in the nursery playground?

[grimupnorth]

We recently moved to a new area and dd (just 3) has started at the nursery attatched to the primary school round the corner. Its on a council estate that has a bit of a 'reputation' but tbh that doesn't bother me, the school is lovely nd small and the staff seem excellent. DD loves it there and is making friends, but I'm having problems with the other parents.

Basically they refuse to speak to me. Its not paranoia, they really do and have done since the first morning when I dropped her off. They just give me dirty looks and don't reply when I say hello. Only one of them acknowledges me, and she runs the local shop so isn't going to be rude to the customers! Its a close community and they all know each other etc etc, and I'm an outsider with a posh accent, pink hair, and a faceful of piercings. I can live with being ignored, but...

Today when we were waiting to go in to drop the dc's off, two of the women started having a conversation about a recent trip one of them had had to make with her ds. She was basically bitching about how carp the treatment was, but then these comments were made:

"The place was full of Asians pretending to have heart attacks so they'd get seen first"

"Next time I go I'll be boot polishing our faces to get better treatment"

"The bloody Arabs want to piss off back home and stop bleeding our hospitals dry"

This was in front of children, and I was furious. I picked up dd and carried her to the other end of the playground to look at the daffodils, and I could feel them (the mothers not the daffodils!) watching me. I felt really uncomfortable, I wanted to say something but tbh I was worried about getting smacked - they are pretty tough aggressive women.

I'm quite ashamed of myself for not having the guts to stand up and say something at the time but didn't want dd to see me get into an argument, or to do it on school grounds. I'm going to put in a complaint to the head tomorrow - is this OTT?

Yes, teabreakgirl, her friend was saying in an opaque way that she didn't like the school because there were too many ethnic children there.

Regardless of skin colour (I thought we'd moved on from that years ago), a parent is entitled to worry about their child's education if the ethnicity of the class is so mixed that the English language is not a given.

In that context, the school is 'a bit dark' takes on a different resonance. It means 'Shit! is my kid (who speaks English) going to be disadvantaged and held back because a lot of the kids don't speak the language too well?

It's a valid concern, in my opinion. Nothing to do with racism .. everything to do with pragmatism.

Sorry, I mean no you were not misunderstanding me. It's a subtle form of rascism.

QM, the whole point of freedom of speech is that it includes accepting the right of people to express opinions that other people find distasteful and offensive - in speech, in writings, in drawing pictures or in four-part harmony. Freedom of speech is not only permitted to nice well-meaning educated liberals. These women were talking to each other, even if they were grandstanding - they were not hurling abuse at an individual present, nor were they calling on other people there to go and smash someone's windows. Calling the police/authorities because you overheard someone saying something you didn't agree with is not only witlessly officious, it's actually profoundly unethical.

The expression 'a bit dark' regarding schools is pathetic. Why don't parents say what they mean? That is, English isn't the first language for many children at the school. At least, I hope that's what they mean.

If your child goes to a school where English is not the dominant language, that is a concern that has nothing to do with racism.

Wouldn't that mean there would be more focus on i) teaching English and ii) having to pitch lessons to accommodate the fact that there are many non native speakers in the classroom? Surely it will affect the learning of the native speakers?

Obviously there are so many learning needs that are not met by our education system but this particular issue has resonance for lots of parents. I can understand their concerns. They should be very proactive about the situation instead of coming out with 'it's a bit dark that school' because there are lots of people in this country who have dark skins and who are native English speakers. A bit of care is needed.

I have just read this whole thread for the past half an our and i really don't know what to say?

With grimupnorth saying 'soft southerners' Abit of a big generalisation imo, even if it was in a lighthearted sentiment. It's like me saying 'hard faced northerners'

Desiderata saying some perspective in in order over racism. I couldn't agree more.

While i completly agree that the women were wrong in the playground, i do agree that people use the racism card way to much nowadays, even if it's not racism. People will call someone racist for absolutly anything these days.

QueenMother was a clasic example of this calling Des a racist when it was clear by her posts that she wasn't. And what was with the looong post with all her own posts copied and pasted? What an absolute waste of time.

I think though that the only post i really agreed on was;
Greyriverside on Mon 17-Mar-08 20:26:11
Grimupnorth, when you say 'bunch of soft southerners' about your friends I expect it's in a playful way, but isn't it technically the same as saying "lazy French" or "thick Irish'. Are you not saying that a group of people share a common fault because they are "from over there" You might have chosen your words more carefully if you had been making a speech, but you were just chatting idly to friends (as were the women in the playground)

I'm not really supporting them as I cringe at nastily intended racist remarks too, but you have to take into account that in some areas people have always talked roughly to and about each other. You may hear them shout at a dear friend "come here you lazy slut" and so on. The point being that it may sometimes be less nasty than it sounds. Also some of the apparent racism isn't truly about race even though it's expressed that way, but about 'people who come here and use up the limited resources' which is a valid complaint/opinion if only it were phrased more precisely.

I a great post that really hits the nail on the head.

Desi, why would the language in a british school not be english just because the children attending that school are from (majoritarily) ethnic backgrounds? Thats quite an assumption that you have there. And I think your tone is a bit off. It is racist to think that your child will be disadvantaged if they are in such a school, its blatent ignorance.

teabreak, I can assure you that I am not ignorant, except when it comes to folding maps and deck chairs.

It is not racist to have a concern that your child will not be well educated in his primary years because the majority of the class do not have English as a first language.

Folk are folk. All cultures throw out brilliant children, kids who will make a difference. But it doesn't help when the first thing a teacher has to do is teach the class how to speak English.

Not when your kid speaks English to being with, whether they be black, brown, yellow, pink or fecking green.

I repeat: racism means that you believe yourself to be superior to another race.

Can't say as I know one.

-just noticed this thread is still going and wanted to add. You cant smoke on a school premises or drink alcohol during a normal school day, both equally acceptable (depending on your own preferences) is other environments. So why should racist remarks be tolerated - schools are there to educate and to open minds not narrrow or close them. On the view that the 'racist' card is bandied about too much - try living in the real world. The next time someone says to you 'I couldnt really call my child that name ie tallulah ( just pick a non traditional name as an example) you could ..'basically because you are ethnic and think that there is nothing wrong with the statement. The comment was ignorant the undertone racist.

What we?re saying today is that you?re either part of the solution or you?re part of the problem: Eldridge Cleaver

Does anyone else get the impresion that des just likes the sound of her own voice??

Racism, Xenophobia or just pure ignorance....I think in subtle forms seen on this thread it is almost worse than the straight forward racism you encounter.

Totally agree fairymum, some right plonkers out there, what's also awful is that these people are procreating and passing these hideous sentiments on to their spawn. Disgraceful- lol to thisisthelast, and thanks to all the others for agreeing with me! Disgusting attitudes of some mnetters has truely disappointed and sickened me.

Here we are again. Once again racism is not a topic to be discussed in rational or useful manner. It exists we all know that and needs to be explored in ALL its forms in order to understand and fight it. It just seems impossible to discuss it on MNet without hysteria. There has been a varied exchange of views on this thread, a useful discussion but once again, the minute any views are expressed that do not toe the official party line out come the racist accusations.

"These people are procreating and passing these hideous sentiments on to their spawn."

MeandmyJoe what on earth does that sort of statement add to a reasoned discussion. You sound a bit nuts to be honest. Like some bible thumping, foaming at the mouth preacher.

There is wide cross section of women from all walks of life on this website - who between them might actually come up with some answers. Just never allowed to get that far though is it?

to the op; don't listen in on private conversations. but if you do, & something really offends you, say it to the people concerned. id rather do that & risk a smack in the mouth than come home and moan about it to a load of strangers on mn. honestly, you'd feel alot better.

isnt that one the the many thing that mn is for - moaning.

I wasn't "listening in on a private conversation" though!

We were stood outside the nursery doors waiting for them to be opened and it was the conversation - the two women were holding forth to the other parents, who were all listening (and mostly laughing along)

Anyway I have been to the head and made it clear that I do not wish to name names or to have fingers pointed, but that I am unhappy to hear such comments on school grounds (as I would be with homophobia or other -isms). I said I felt that schools should be places free from prejudices, and she said she agrred and that she would make a point of floating round the playground at drop off and pick up times, and would arrange a circle time with the children and possibly an assembly soon about general tolerance etc.

hahahaha, yep that's me, just off to read the bible and wipe the foam from my mouth right now! and if you agree with the sentiments I am refering to then you're the nutter, if you don't then why the nasty comments. This thread really makes me chuckle!

Yes, you sound like a really cheery sort Meandmyjoe.

Not actually expressed any views really, just think that a discussion like this could be a bit more constructive. Calling peoples children; spawn, detracts from any validity your views have and lets face it makes you sound rather scary. I think you sound as bad as the people mentioned in the OP TBH - without the racial element of course.

Yep, very scary indeed. Wow, sometimes I even scare myself. lolololololol

Goodess me, Almummy, I fail to see how anyone has been labelled as racist on this thread! Think there's some hysteria alright! Sounds like there has been some resolution to the op so thank God this thread can be put to rest (hopefully!!!) I too am slightly sickend by some views.

I am also surprised at the sentiment expressed in one post "all black people are originally from another country"

Not so! Many black and mixed race people have been born here, and have never lived anywhere else apart from Britain. They happen to have an ancestor from a part of the world where dark skin is common.

But come on, 1000 years ago you would've been jumping on "those effing romans" or post-Norman Conquest "All these damned Frenchies"... the fact is, people move about.

My Grandfather is Polish and came here after the war, same as a lot of Carribean people. I have white skin and have only faced racism in a few situations, most notably when I worked in a nursery predominantly staffed by black women and I used to get comments such as "your blonde hair" (I'm a brunette) and "you think all of us look the same anyway" - now who is making the assumptions? Prejudice and racism exists in every culture, among many different people. Challenge it. Question it.

I consider myself lucky that I am part of a majority because I face fewer prejudices based my skin colour. However, I was grossly overweight when I was younger, and was judged on that very netagively, being shouted at in the street by grown men, etc.

Judging anyone because of how they look is wrong, whatever part of their appearance you are judging. People presume I am "100% White British" when in fact, I am not. Now, all I hear about is how Polish people are coming over and sponging, taking jobs, etc. If we have an issue with immigration, it's up to us to question our politicians, challenge their methods, get involved. Vote. How many of these moaning people are actually getting off their arses and VOTING for the party they believe has the means to implement policies most in line with their views? That's what democracy is for - but to be ignorant, hateful and apathetic seems to be the lot for many people in our country.

THAT needs addressing, and debating the point with people may even make them think about why they believe what they do. Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance. I ask questions of these people, see if they can justify why they think what they do. Quite often they will say something along the lines of, "Oh, i know it's not ALL black people, of course not..." so then I follow up with "So why do you make such generalised comments?"

I do it with a sweet innocent smile, and as I said, by asking them lots of questions. It's not as simple as me saying straight out "I don't agree with you". If I can get someone to admit that they are being unthinking, and then make them look at their own beliefs, I hope I might make a difference.

Desi, you know full well I never called you ignorant personally. I said the BELIEF was ignorant but I have seen via this thread how quick you are to get defensive and twist what is said. This thread has the opportunity to be educational for us all. Ive found it eye opening but for all the wrong reasons really. You assumed that because the children in the school "are a bit dark" that they aren't british. No one said anything about the said school/students being foreign. You just assumed.

Just read your post nifty, well said.

I am not a racist, BUT......