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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Neighbours say they can only 'try' to control their child.

747 replies

sleeplessnights24 · 02/01/2024 23:50

I live in a new build. Everything has been ok, but the tenants upstairs have a 5 year old boy who doesn't stop stomping.

Running in the afternoon/normal hours is one thing, but this is in the early hours when people are clearly still asleep! It also happens in the middle of the night too...?! Surely a 5 year old can sleep through the night...? Also, why run if you're up that late?!

I noted the hours it happened. 5:30am, 5:40am, 6:30am - and weirdly 12:30am, 1:20am and 4:20am too. That's just in the last 3 weeks. On weekends it started at 6:50am and 5:40am. We are not just talking about brief periods of noise. It is often intermittent. The worst was 3:50am - which was intermittent until about 4:20am. Then again at 5:20am. Then at 7:30am. That night I didn't sleep at all since 3:50am.

Initially, all communications were fine. I only spoke up once I was at my wits end. I was polite - and so were they. No apology from their side though. They said they'd be mindful of the noise. Phew! I was grateful and hopeful to finally be able to sleep. I do not expect to live in silence (obviously), but stomping on your ceiling - when you're trying to sleep and it is still dark outside, is crazy.

A few months goes by... nothing changes. But because I had already complained once, I felt like I couldn't complain again... until I did.

Again, all polite from both sides. Said they'd be mindful. Ok.
Nothing changed again. Rinse & repeat. The noise - if anything - just got louder... so I spoke up again. Both sides nice and polite. They said it was 'confusing' that it was so loud. I asked multiple times if they'd like to come down and hear it for themselves as they didn't understand how it could be so disruptive. They ignored every invite to come listen.

They would say he 'only walks' on days I would be woken up in the morning - by running. They were/are defensive and looking for excuses. I get it. In many ways, I am not surprised. They kept saying they were 'being mindful' - but nothing ever changed. If the noise had reduced by 20% since I complained; at least that would be something. But there was literally no change.

I was transparent about having Bose headphones, white noise machines, etc... so they could see that I was doing things to drown out the noise from my side.

After 18 months of it happening on an almost daily basis, I complained to my building management Co. I had complained to management before - but their response was 'there's nothing we can do'. They didn't even pass on my sentiments to the owners of the flat.

This time I didn't relent - and asked them to pass/forward my email to the actual owners of the apartment upstairs. (Upstairs are renters). They did indeed forward my email to the owners.

I got a response saying the owners had spoken to their tenants - and the tenants have agreed to buy a rug and will 'try to control the movements of their child when possible'.

I took this as somewhat helpful - and was more angry that I was proven right in that what they'd done for the year prior - was nothing at all - certainly in terms of practical measures when they had told me there was nothing more they could do. Over the 18 months; there was one occasion where I (politely) asked what they had done to mitigate the noise... they didn't respond. (They have hardwood floors throughout).

For 8 weeks, they seemed to promptly stop the running in the middle of the night/early hours (which I only wanted stopped at unreasonable hours anyway) - but now we are back to square one it seems. I'm mindful of it being Winter (dark and awful weather outside) and also Christmas season, but I'm not sure why it keeps happening. They say the best they can do is 'try' to control it.

AIBU for not relenting and to keep complaining to management? The tenants have stopped opening my messages now.

OP posts:
Nofilteritwonthelp · 03/01/2024 10:06

DoorLockedAgain · 03/01/2024 09:47

‘I’m just baffled at the comments that kids will be kids, so just accept no sleep for years on end until when? 🤷🏻‍♀️ There isn’t one person on here that would be ok with being woken multiple times a night by someone else’s noise. ‘

Quite. It’s weird that the neighbour being kept awake is seen as the aggressor rather than a victim, by a vocal minority on here.

People can be driven to feeling suicidal by noisy neighbours. We should not dismiss the impact on neighbours’ mental health of chronic noise disruption with no way of controlling it.

People can be driven to feeling suicidal by noisy neighbours. We should not dismiss the impact on neighbours’ mental health of chronic noise disruption with no way of controlling it.

Absolutely this, I've been in a situation Iike this, and if you own the place it is extremely stressful as you feel trapped and helpless. It gets to the point where you are just wiayijh for the noise and can't relax in your own home, the one place you should be able to relax and feel safe. I really feel for you OP and hope it gets resolved soon, like mine was once the council got involved.

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:07

ichifanny · 03/01/2024 10:05

It’s a child moving about their house do you want them to tie him to his bed or not allow him to walk around ? Get earplugs and leave the family alone .

They stopped it for 2 months !!! So actually they can stop it!

Universalsnail · 03/01/2024 10:07

If the floor is hardwood I actually think this is a landlord issue not a tennent issue. The landlord of the flat above needs to sound proof the flat. They need to install a thick carpet with foam underlay for a start.

This sounds like an exhausting situation for everyone.

Nearlyspring23 · 03/01/2024 10:08

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 06:56

Great question. I’ll copy/paste from Notes entries. These were the last 5 days before I left to come here. Excuse typos as it’s just a copy paste job.

1:20am - WTF. Why run?!?!

4:18- running. Stopped at 4:37
5:30 - jumping/sounds like dropping toys on floor. Stopped at 5:50

5:20 - running/stomping. Stopped at 5:42

3:50 - jumping/running. Stopped at 4:20 approx. Now ongoing at 4:40.
5:20 - started again.

6:09 - running. Didn’t stop. Ongoing as typing. Time to get up.

Op I had great sympathy for you until I read this post. I had assumed the child was up waking for hours at a time every night at 1, 2, 3, 4am etc.
However they are only waking 1-2 times a night for about 20 or 30 mins a time!

This can be totally normal and with that time frame it is totally possible is up for the toilet, get a drink or a bad dream. As an adult if we need the loo in the night it would be 5mins max. A child would take much longer as they will likely wake the parent, wait for parent to get up with them, go to bathroom, be put back to bed, need putting back a few times if they don’t settle back straight away.

A few 20 min wake ups is hardly bad parenting, unreasonable or easily changed.

I would suggest you download a mindfulness app to help you through those awful 2x 20min wake ups and ensure you are able to sleep well for the remaining 7.5hours of the night where there are no disturbances.

ichifanny · 03/01/2024 10:08

Maybe the child stopped it for 2 months if he was going through a period of sleeping better for a while ? Kids don’t stay the same with their sleeping habits unfortunately .

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 10:09

My neighbour shouts and bangs over me walking or if I have young nieces in nephews in running around. I decided to start recording to take to the police for harassment

Universalsnail · 03/01/2024 10:09

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:07

They stopped it for 2 months !!! So actually they can stop it!

This is true but we don't know to what detriment it took them to stop it. If he's waking up that much and stopping it involved a parent waking up and making sure he goes and stays in bed over and over it's understandable that after a while they've stopped doing it again because sleep deprivation is alot. I think the landlord could be doing far more to address their poor soundproofing.

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:09

ichifanny · 03/01/2024 10:08

Maybe the child stopped it for 2 months if he was going through a period of sleeping better for a while ? Kids don’t stay the same with their sleeping habits unfortunately .

Yawn. Funny how it coincided exactly when the landlord stepped in.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 10:10

mollyfolk · 03/01/2024 09:22

I understand all that including the fact that you offered to pay for foam mats which is very generous - did you direct this towards the family or the landlord because I’m surprised the landlord didn’t take you up on it.

I understand that you find the noise excessive but you will struggle to prove that noise from movement constitutes a nuisance. It is the family and the landlord that I am saying, in my opinion, are dismissing your concerns - not people here. I think the best way you can make changes happen for you is to focus all of your efforts on getting the landlord to change the flooring. I’m not saying you are wrong to be annoyed but I just don’t think you are going to get anywhere focussing on the child running rather than the flooring.

Edited

Both! But as per my PP, I have only been communicating with the building management company and the LL as of late. I suspect the LL will indeed take me up on the offer of the hallway rugs/foam mats - but I am not sure if he will agree to carpeting.

I am obviously solution minded - more than most would be in my opinion - and as I have said multiple times; all I want is to be able to sleep (at night!) - and if it really is that impossible - and if they really can’t control their child running/jumping/stomping in the middle of the night - then at least put foam mats and rugs with underlay in the named hallway - so that if he has to run, the noise is deadened/dampened - because as it stands; he’s running on hardwood floors.

OP posts:
sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 10:10

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:09

Yawn. Funny how it coincided exactly when the landlord stepped in.

Funny indeed.... hmmm! 😂

OP posts:
Theunamedcat · 03/01/2024 10:10

Thing is there are lots of things they could have done my kids don't sleep my eldest is currently still awake from yesterday (fortunately he is 15 and I'm able to leave him unsupervised) when he was younger he was a nightmare always sensory seeking I quickly found ways to keep him quiet his younger brother is worse to keep him calm we have an exercise ball on the bed he can bounce on there is no noise and he is happy watching TV quietly

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:14

Universalsnail · 03/01/2024 10:09

This is true but we don't know to what detriment it took them to stop it. If he's waking up that much and stopping it involved a parent waking up and making sure he goes and stays in bed over and over it's understandable that after a while they've stopped doing it again because sleep deprivation is alot. I think the landlord could be doing far more to address their poor soundproofing.

2 months is a long time to be able to fix it with NO noise. So obviously they must have been able to keep him in bed. Whatever they did it worked and if he is not up waking everyone surely they are not getting up and putting him back several times a night. Doing it and getting results and then not bothering is lousy.

CantDealwithChristmas · 03/01/2024 10:14

OP, I feel for you as a fellow flat dweller. I urge you to contact the council. Every urban local council I know of has by-laws against impact noise after 11pm and before (usually about) 6am and they will have an Environmental Officer who can advise you. You are entitled to quiet enjoyment and to be able to sleep at night. The council won't harrass or ill-treat your neighbours but they will come up with options and be more proactive about putting them in place than the property manager.

Dibilnik · 03/01/2024 10:14

Gosh OP I think I read your previous thread (?) and was so relieved for you that the landlord had managed to persuade them to be more humane.

I hope they go back to this. How you have managed to avoid leaving poisoned sweets around, I have no idea.

JingleSnowmanTree · 03/01/2024 10:15

Chichimcgee · 03/01/2024 02:22

@Cmonluv and ‘@Lovelyjubbbly a child having sen doesn’t mean they have a get out clause to do what they want and cause disruptions to other people. However tough it is for the parents it’s not OPs problem.

@Chichimcgee

also, there's nothing to say the child has SEN. It was just brought up by one poster who seems to think the OP isn't entitled to sleep in her own home. Who seems to think she's the only one who has a child with SEN, which actually is irrelevant to this situation anyway.

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 10:18

Nearlyspring23 · 03/01/2024 10:08

Op I had great sympathy for you until I read this post. I had assumed the child was up waking for hours at a time every night at 1, 2, 3, 4am etc.
However they are only waking 1-2 times a night for about 20 or 30 mins a time!

This can be totally normal and with that time frame it is totally possible is up for the toilet, get a drink or a bad dream. As an adult if we need the loo in the night it would be 5mins max. A child would take much longer as they will likely wake the parent, wait for parent to get up with them, go to bathroom, be put back to bed, need putting back a few times if they don’t settle back straight away.

A few 20 min wake ups is hardly bad parenting, unreasonable or easily changed.

I would suggest you download a mindfulness app to help you through those awful 2x 20min wake ups and ensure you are able to sleep well for the remaining 7.5hours of the night where there are no disturbances.

My point is - it's not about the fact that he might need the toilet - or something equally (obviously) reasonable.

It's about the fact the stomping/running continues throughout these timeframes. 30+ mins of stomping - followed by quietness. Followed by it starting up again... etc.. Of course; if he had a bad dream or something; he would naturally go to his parents and get settled again - that's not the case here. I suspect he's being left to his own devices - until the parents finally do something about it.

OP posts:
ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 10:20

OP though you’re making this all about timeframes that you have decided are unacceptable. Everyone else isn’t you and have different lives

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 10:20

Universalsnail · 03/01/2024 10:09

This is true but we don't know to what detriment it took them to stop it. If he's waking up that much and stopping it involved a parent waking up and making sure he goes and stays in bed over and over it's understandable that after a while they've stopped doing it again because sleep deprivation is alot. I think the landlord could be doing far more to address their poor soundproofing.

Yes, sleep deprivation really is a lot! I know - I've lived it - because of a child that isn't even mine.

OP posts:
Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:21

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 10:20

OP though you’re making this all about timeframes that you have decided are unacceptable. Everyone else isn’t you and have different lives

What a stupid comment. People need to sleep! AT NIGHT!

DinkyDonkey2018 · 03/01/2024 10:21

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 09:17

A normally developing 5 yr old absolutely is able to understand and follow those rules.

Some kids aren't, for various reasons, they can TRY but if their brain development doesn't allow it what then?

Given the child's brain development seemed to cope for 8 weeks after the LL got involved, I don't think that's an issue.

Cmonluv · 03/01/2024 10:22

sleeplessnights24 · 03/01/2024 10:18

My point is - it's not about the fact that he might need the toilet - or something equally (obviously) reasonable.

It's about the fact the stomping/running continues throughout these timeframes. 30+ mins of stomping - followed by quietness. Followed by it starting up again... etc.. Of course; if he had a bad dream or something; he would naturally go to his parents and get settled again - that's not the case here. I suspect he's being left to his own devices - until the parents finally do something about it.

Do you have children? What are you basing your assumption on what this child would naturally do on?

Daniagainagainagain · 03/01/2024 10:23

carrotsnparsnips · 03/01/2024 00:14

Sorry but what would you like them to do? Handcuff him to his bed? He’s a child - if his sleep is this bad I feel very sorry for them, they must be knackered.

Disciplining the child would be a start. Not letting him RUN for hours at 3 in the morning is very different to handcuffing the child.

Lazy parenting on all parts here.
I feel for you OP. I know how soul destroying it is. We went through it and kept on at the landlord. Eventually the council came round and listened to the noise with a noise measurement tool and confirmed it was WAY above 'reasonable living'

In the end the landlord carpeted (reluctantly) the upstairs. But it came with us having our car keyed.

We were friends with the coupe above and actually helped them move out at a later date. We made every single effort to be as noisy as we could. Stamping and dropping things on the floor. We had moved out by then and our friends were moving out. Just to give them a literal taste of months and months of soul destroying, and in the end, deliberate noise.

The kids would ride on scooters indoors, bounce balls on the floor, run and jump, you could hear the parents egging them on.

I was suffering with cancer and had a very young baby. So I was petty back right at the end and had to regrets.

Contact the council and say it's affecting your mental and physical wellbeing, document everything, and implore a member of the council to come round and measure the sound. Record everything, every interaction, every time they wake you with banging.

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 10:24

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:21

What a stupid comment. People need to sleep! AT NIGHT!

1 in 6 people do not sleep at night they sleep during the day

Icantbedoingwithit · 03/01/2024 10:25

ValerieMoore · 03/01/2024 10:24

1 in 6 people do not sleep at night they sleep during the day

I just can’t. Ridiculous argument. Unbelievably stupid.

Lovelyjubbbly · 03/01/2024 10:27

@Chichimcgee it does hunny when one of your children have a disability 👍 just because some children don’t look like they are disabled doesn’t mean there not! 🙂🙂🙂