To expect my ASD daughter to love me?

[CryingCaroline]

I’ve just had a heartbreaking conversation with my ASD daughter ( 12 years old ) where she said that she doesn’t feel she loves me, or anyone.

I feel terrible because I burst into tears and she just looked at me and said “ This is why I don’t tell you the truth and just say I love you back when you say it “

It feels physically painful for me to think my young daughter doesn’t love me and possibly never did - she certainly acted like she did when she was younger but as puberty hit she has become far colder and less emotional.

If she demands lots of takeaway food I would say "No, it's not good for your body to have it too often and I love you and want you to be healthy. If you fancy a burger/kebab/ Chinese why don't we find a recipe, I'll get the ingredients and we can cook it?"

Carolyn, I think your confidence has well and truly been knocked for six and the situation with the takeaways is as good a situation as any to try and get your confidence back even a tiny wee bit.

Would you feel comfortable introducing a new ‘rule’ into your family life and that you only have a takeaway once a week or once a fortnight. You could say Saturday is takeaway day and that way your daughter will start to understand the routine of it. You can say you’d noticed the takeaway bills were mounting up and you have to cut back but it’s also a great opportunity for everyone e to start eating healthier. You could maybe even have one last takeaway blowout before adopting the new way of doing things. And I’m not for one minute suggesting this will be easy but it could actually be easier to do than you think.

how would your daughter be with a homemade fakeaway. I’m pretty sure there are books by The Pinch of Nom. Now my son would never accept them but his difficulties are profound.

Strawberryjellybelly
I needed to hear this from someone who isn’t involved to see clearly what I need to do.
I am absolutely going to follow this advice starting today!
I have lost confidence, I took it for absolute granted that I would have the same relationship with her as my eldest and because she seems to put lots of conditions on whether she likes / hates you, I’ve found it a real struggle to know what to push through and what to relent on.

Picky eating causes a further stress as she only has a few safe foods so after eating those for a few days then wants a takeaway pizza for instance because no doubt she wants a change from the boring nuggets and chips but has no imagination into what else she could have!

I think you also need to remember that love is shown over a lifetime not a moment.

It's something your daughter will understand when she is older and looks back. That actually boundaries are love. We can't always do the things that we want because they aren't good for us and sometimes the people that love us have to assert boundaries. She won't understand right now, but nor does any teen.

A respectfully asserted boundary, given with clear preparation - not sprung on her spontaneously is a good thing, it'll take time and building new habits for any teen (or adult) can easily take a month or more before it becomes your normal way of working.

I really feel for you it sounds like you’re constantly treading a very fine line with her do as not to upset her. Adding into the worry of whether she feels unloved or not - it must be exhausting for you.

I have diagnosed adhd but also on the waiting list for ASD assessment. I struggle with misophonia especially with the sounds people make while eating or drinking. As an adult I understand it’s not acceptable to tell people they can’t eat or drink even though I find it infuriating. My poor DH has learnt to eat as quietly as humanly possible and we always have the tv on when eating at home.

The trip to Starbucks struck me as something you could try and put a boundary around. Either you drink your drinks sitting in Starbucks where it’s noisy and she won’t hear you. Or could you have had the radio on in the car so she couldn’t hear you sipping?

what if you said “I’m sorry DD but I’d like a drink as well. We can either have it in, or if you want to go home I will drink it as quietly as I can and we will put the radio on in the car. Otherwise neither of us will have a drink.”

I appreciate that wouldn’t go down well but she needs to find some way of coping with this stuff and if you’re constantly giving in because you’re afraid of her reaction she’s really going to struggle later.

you sound like a fantastic mum doing the best you can. I also think if she says you’re a bad mum because you had arranged to see a friend say “I’m a good mum but I’m also a good friend - it would be rude to cancel now so let’s go bowling tomorrow”.

Caroline, can you suggest ear phones for when noises are bothering your daughter.

Strawberryjellybelly

Ive bought them all, headphones to the most expensive loops and we refuses to wear any of them as says they’ll make her look “ weird “ and “ not normal like everyone else “

I suggested an Autism friendly meet up group I found online where girls can meet whilst parents stay and have coffee together and when I suggested this she said “ So you want me to socialise with autistic children when you know I hardly even like any children, or people for that matter “

Incredibly black and white thinking so it’s hard to manoeuvre these things with her.

Singleandproud

Youre absolutely right.
Her asking me to walk her into school on her first day of secondary school so she felt safe is a love language for her and I need to hold onto things rather than just expecting an “ I love you mum “ type response to confirm things how I naturally expect but in ways that don’t work for her.

Mindhowyougoes

Hmmm…I wish so much that either of those options may work for her but in this situation she would totally cut her nose off to spite her face!
She would say she chooses neither option and then refuse to have a drink herself in which case we both lose out and the day feels ruined so I usually relent and just allow her to have what she wants and don’t push to eat or drink around her so that she does if that makes sense!

With the earphones - I just tend to wear noise cancelling earbuds (I have Airpods Pro just because I'm an Apple sheep) and switch the noise cancellation on and off but without music playing 99% of the time. I look totally "normal" because half the planet usually has some form of earbuds in, but I can control the level of environmental noise and overload that way.

I can't quite get on with Loops - ended up losing mine out of the little case they come in - but my solution seems to work OK.

She would say she chooses neither option and then refuse to have a drink herself in which case we both lose out and the day feels ruined so I usually relent and just allow her to have what she wants and don’t push to eat or drink around her so that she does if that makes sense!

She is going to find the adult world a harsh and difficult place if you don't drastically change this dynamic.

It's okay to say no to her. It's okay for her to have uncomfortable feelings or be upset. And she won't stop loving you.
She needs to respect you though, and I don't mean in an old-skool authoritarian way, I mean as a fellow human. She needs to start learning this, now, in order to get by in the adult world.

There are many teen years ahead and they will be nightmarishly hard if you continue as her doormat.

We had a wonderful day together yesterday, we went for a walk in a NT place followed by shopping for a new pair of school shoes which she was happy with as felt her loafers were too “ young “ compared to lace up shoes that the majority of the other girls are wearing.
Its sad that she seems to want to be like all the other girls to such an extent that I’m not ever sure what she actually likes or dislikes

I agree about saying no to her at points, I have to accept that sometimes she will be upset or uncomfortable but I do need to have boundaries in place or else I feel I’m always making her happy only for the mean time until the next thing she wants that I can’t deliver

I felt bad at bedtime as without thinking I said “ Love you “ and she said “ I like spending time with you but I like spending time with my friends and I don’t love them so I still don’t know about you “

She puts a lot of pressure on herself and I don’t know if I should stop saying it altogether if it makes her feel on edge but equally I would hate for her to think I don’t love her anymore

I'm glad you had such a nice day. Kindly, that is a LOT of analysis, sadness and worry over a single (positive) day. You say she puts a lot of pressure on herself but I wonder if subconsciously some of that pressure is coming from you. You saying "I love you" and analysing her reply might feel quite pressuring to her right now.

I really would try to focus on the connection and getting to know her, accepting her as she is. I think it's quite normal and healthy for a 12 year old to want to be like her friends. It's a developmental stage, a step along the path to "finding herself". Most kids don't go straight to the confidence to swim their own way, and those who do sometimes do so because they have less social awareness. Teenage years are amazing, kids change so much and you have to be on your toes to keep up with who they are today! And it's also normal and healthy for your relationship to change over the period, for her to kick against you a bit and watch how you model an adult response to that.

I agree with the previous commenter. Concentrate on making nice memories and spending time together. It sounds like she is trying to figure out what love means to her, given the comments about her friends.

Dinglyping

You’re right, I probably am adding some pressure because I feel so on edge with her all the time, worried when the next issue will come up, the next school refusal and so on.
I need to let go of some of that and try and take each day as it comes without over analysing and preempting the next problem iyswim.
I find it hard to live in the moment with her as one slight change or something she’s not thrilled about can ruin everything

With the earphones - I just tend to wear noise cancelling earbuds (I have Airpods Pro just because I'm an Apple sheep) and switch the noise cancellation on and off but without music playing 99% of the time. I look totally "normal" because half the planet usually has some form of earbuds in, but I can control the level of environmental noise and overload that way

yes. This is the kind of thing I meant. My grandchildren all have them and so do their friends. They seem to be what teenagers wear.

felt bad at bedtime as without thinking I said “ Love you “ and she said “ I like spending time with you but I like spending time with my friends and I don’t love them so I still don’t know about you “

just say, thats ok, you don’t have to say anything in reply but this is what mums do/say.

Strawberryjellybelly
I will try and persuade her with the earphones.
I see people wearing them everywhere but her fear of being at all different in any way at all seems to overtake her logic at times.
I am ploughing on with saying I love you as I normally do and accept it won’t be said back but I’m seeing the small steps she’s taking to be around me as a good sign.
Shes requested a trip on the Eurostar as her birthday present, just us!

For an AS D person perhaps love as an emotion is not easy to define... I mean what does it really mean it you have a very black and white factual way of seeing things... Does she ever do kind things for you? I have lost count of the awful things my asd son says when he's mad at me or I'm doing something he doesn't like... He swears at me, is rude, tells me whatever He is thinking with no filter. He can hate me one minute then when calm apologises for his behaviour of outburst and say he loves me.. On occasions there have always been acts of kindness, even if it's bringing me a gift of a slug from the garden.....I tend not to react to his brutal honesty which tends to just be a snapshot of that moment and his current emotion... My spouse takes everything personally but really there's no point taking it to heart.. Especially teenagers ... Think they also know how to press our buttons... If she says it's how she feels just acknowledge it is now she feels at that time but don't take it internally. She will love you underneath but will blurt out what she's feeling right then... Doesn't mean she always feels that.. Oftentimes my son doesn't see how his honesty affects others negatively..he just sees facts

She does do kind things for me such as applying my make up if we are going somewhere together or will make me a cup of tea occasionally.
Its hard to say but generally she thinks about herself before anyone else so without prompting she doesn’t naturally do things for others iyswim!

This sounds tough OP. I have an autistic pre pubescent son so get it to an extent, and am autistic myself. Ironically I think the best way to teach autistic people that the world does not revolve around them is to have another autistic person in the house 😂 DS and I seem to battle all the time as we are both somewhat rigid and expect to be the focus; however he has naturally had to accept over time that he can't always win. I do honestly feel that this is doing him a massive favour in terms of how he lives later on. Establish a reasonable boundary with your DD (ie you are allowed to eat!!) and then stick to it). Future housemates won't avoid triggering her, she needs to learn how to cope with this. Show love by assisting her with adult life training.

Another day and another day of school refusal.
This time because she is on her period and it’s a PE day.
I just can’t see how things are going to pan out well with schooling.
She says continually that I don’t love her when I try and encourage her to school.
I don’t know what to do really.

Oh no. EBSA is so incredibly hard. This love thing seems to have become a battleground, perhaps because she knows it works. Not because she is being manipulative but because she's desperate and hitting out with the most effective weapons she has.

I think @StrawberryJellyBelly 's response a few posts up is excellent. Low key, not demanding anything emotionally.

I was told to imagine there is a hungry lion in the corner of the room. Whatever conversations you have with her, she is going to be in "fight or flight" mode because her mind is swamped with adrenaline. We all might be terse, shout or ignore the speaker when in crisis dealing with the lion. All you can do is do your best to support and not demand anything of her, while she is not in a position to give. I hope you find a nice moment or two later on today.

I’m just at a loss as there’s no convincing her otherwise when she’s decided upon something but equally what am I meant to do long term if she just refuses school altogether

My dd2 isn’t very verbal and has never told me she loves me, I know she does love me because she misses me if I’m not around (or she misses the routine), she copies things I do and mimics me, she chooses to sit with me, when I’m unwell she comes and checks on me. She never hugs me.

My other Dd is very much like yours, she doesn’t really understand the feeling of love, she doesn’t tell me she loves me, she’s now almost 20 and at uni, she doesn’t call me, I have to message her to check she’s ok, she won’t let me know if she needs help or if she’s feeling down or ill. It is hard for me and I often feel sad about neither of my dc saying they love me but they are autistic and probably just don’t recognise those feelings.

@CryingCaroline I know you said you're NT but have you considered the possibility you're ND?

There's some things pinging my radar. You're very focussed on details right now and struggling a bit more with the big picture stuff, probably moreso due to how stressed you are just now. And you and your daughter both seem to have quite rigid ways of thinking, just in somewhat different ways, so you're clashing there. You sound really overwhelmed.

Just something to think about - I know it's not great to try and armchair diagnose someone online but I didn't want to not say, in case it is somehow helpful to you.

It can be just a "word" to young people with ASD.. my Grandson once said to me also ASD " l don't know what love means" he was 10 and just used to say it because we did.
He's now 18 with a Girlfriend and definitely understands what it means now..