To expect my ASD daughter to love me?

[CryingCaroline]

I’ve just had a heartbreaking conversation with my ASD daughter ( 12 years old ) where she said that she doesn’t feel she loves me, or anyone.

I feel terrible because I burst into tears and she just looked at me and said “ This is why I don’t tell you the truth and just say I love you back when you say it “

It feels physically painful for me to think my young daughter doesn’t love me and possibly never did - she certainly acted like she did when she was younger but as puberty hit she has become far colder and less emotional.

I'd say it's common. If they're more or less happy with you that's enough. I can count on the fingers of 1 hand expressions of affection from DS2 (32). I'm used to it.

Mine tells me that I never need to tell him that I love him because I've told him once so he knows now and I never need to say it again!

I would say your dd has ideas of the meanings of a lot of things that may be really quite incorrect. Love for example - what does she think love means? It might be worth asking her. On the one hand mine would say he doesn't love me - but on the other hand he's said that if I died he'd kill himself (obviously I now feel obliged to live to well over 100). The same with being a parent. She probably has very rigid black and white ideas and if you're not inside those parameters then you're not fitting her idea of a good/loving parent. She probably sees your whole point of being as being a parent - just like young children can't imagine their teachers have a life outside teaching, they exist only to be teachers.

I think it might be worth discussing some of her ideas and see if you can get her thinking about some things that might not have occurred to her. I would talk to her a lot about emotions, relationships and parenting - you might be quite shocked by some of her ideas and some of the things she is completely oblivious to, things you would take for granted as being obvious.

Strawberryjelly
Honestly it really helps to have another insight so nothing taken as a criticism at all honestly. It’s really helpful for me to be able to get clear responses from people who don’t know me or DD so aren’t coming from my angle or hers in particular but just saying how it’s all coming across.

Jellycats4life

I actually hadn’t linked together her having to say she loves me as a demand avoidance type thing but of course it is as I’m asking her to say it back and if she’s not sure of the feeling anyway then it is just another demand
She’s so compliant in some ways, well at school and with extended family members but not with me or DH.
In fact, any question such as can I have your cup to put in the dishwater will get a horrible reply to, usually something about her having to do so much etc etc etc

Hillrunning

Gosh now you’ve said it like that I feel a little foolish!
She absolutely does think it’s a choice to have children and doesn’t understand why people do this so that does make even more sense to why she wouldn’t think it necessary to show appreciation for things that I would imagine her to.
Even if I compare in a way such as “ Auntie X works full time in London so her children don’t see her until 7pm “ when she is moaning that she wants entertaining as I’m quickly sending a work email at 3.30pm, she will reply “ Her choice to have them and if she wants to be a bad parent that’s on her “

I'm autistic. I was about 5 when I told my mum I didn't love her, as I didn't and I still don't. Comments along the lines of 'of course she (the daughter) does she just doesn't know it' are a little naïve.

I am well aware of what love actually does feel like (at least romantic love) as I am very happily married. I just have no particular warm feelings towards my mother, we're too different.

Qwestsprout

Can I ask if there was anything she could have done to change this or do you genuinely just feel you don’t love her as you’re too different?
I ask because I can be different to family members and still love them but perhaps this is that bit harder with ASD?

Well there are things that frustrate me about her now and things looking back, but they aren't why I never felt love for her as a small child. My parents - one deceased - just happened to be people I was related to (unfortunately). I had a grandparent I would say I loved - or felt very fondly about at least - but I wouldn't say the same for any of the other blood relatives I used to have.
I think perhaps autistic people are more likely to question the narrative of 'loving one's family' because really there is no reason to, they are strangers one happens to live with or whatever.

Honestly, you are clearly a good mum who loves her daughter. And to me is seems obvious that she does love you, rather than just not feeling connected to you, it’s just that her understanding and expression of love is different than hers.

I would agree that you need to have clear and consistent boundaries and that your DD needs to learn that is part of a loving and trusting relationship whether you feel some sort of deep emotional love or not. You are not there to meet all of her needs for her like she’s a baby, you’re there to meet some of her needs and support her to meet her own. She may need more support with this socially and emotionally than other children might.

Your daughter needs to learn that both love and parenting are not simply putting the child’s needs ahead of your own, that you are a whole person in your own right with needs and that in order to be a good parent and provide her with the care she needs, you also need to prioritise your own sometimes.

It is definitely being complicated by the fact she is becoming a teenager too. Your relationship will likely heal as she grows and you need to understand that you aren’t going to please her all the time and that’s okay. It sounds like your time is more important to her than your words or affection, and I agree that trying to find a shared interest would be good, but you can’t spend your life dropping things for her, as she can’t go through life expecting love to look like that as it isn’t healthy.

Haveyouanyjam
Thanks for taking the time to write this long reply.
I agree with all you say as she currently does expect me to put everyone of her needs above mine, her dads and her sisters.
I almost do feel quite blackmailed at times as she will question that I love her if I make her do x,y,z

Today it is school refusal due to feeling lightheaded and how can I possibly expect her to go ( even though this is day 4 of a new term ) feeling like this when I say I love and care about her

It’s all exasperating trying to do the best by her all the time whilst balancing life

Caroline could you possibly say to your daughter
‘ I love you but I will no longer allow you to blackmail me emotionally and for the time being we’re taking the concept of love out of any conversation we have’.

She really does have you dancing to her tune and what’s going on goes way beyond us being our children’s guide through life.

OP I'd argue that as well as a feeling love is doing right by a person. It sounds like she is testing you and that you need to have some boundaries. It won't do her any good in the long run if you keep giving into her behaviour and cancelling your plans to try and prove that you love her.

Taking the concept of love out of conversations sounds like a good idea. I'd say something simple like "I have made a commitment to go and see friend, it has nothing to do with my love for you" for example.

Thank you

I

OP, you can't 'expect' love, regardless of how much you do for your kids.

My relationship with my eldest daughter can be like this, but it's just how it is with teen/tweenagers. Give and take doesn't come into it where feelings are concerned. We are here for them and they are entitled to our unconditional love, no matter what. They don't have to 'earn' it.

All that said I understand how you feel and I often feel similar. I read about children saying how much they love their parents and it would be lovely to hear that from my children, but I love them regardless of how they feel.

Somebody shared this here once and it has comforted me when parenting my girls has felt tough.

"A really important but horrible developmental phase in teens is pushing you away.

They have to do it. It’s the start of independence and being separate to you. But so many of them are horrible about it because they simply don’t understand what’s happening.

You know when children are little and we get touched out? I think that’s the best comparison, where they fight and resist any warmth and closeness. Perversely it doesn’t mean they don’t need it.

Also, any hint they are children is likely to be met with rage because they are trying to go forwards and not back.

Everything you say will be wrong because in order to establish who she is, she has to establish who she isn’t. And she isn’t you - she’s smarter and more intelligent and knows more and you - well, you are so stupid and you know nothing and you’re creepy.

Take heart. She won’t have meant it in the sense that you think. She means all the above and she doesn’t know it herself."

Really struggling tonight
Ill reply tomorrow

@CryingCaroline I hope you manage to get some sleep tonight and that the new day brings some peace for you and your DD.

Your daughter has a disability, you and she might not think of it like that but in this case it you have to recognise it as that.

If she was blind and couldn't see you or deaf and couldn't hear you it would be easier to understand it.

Her texting you is her way of saying, she doesn't hate ou and doesn't want you to feel bad.

It seems to be a recurrent issue that she thinks that it's bad parenting if parents dare to work/socialise/do anything other than focus on their offspring's immediate demands, no matter how minor.

Does she say this to her father? Would she accept it if other adults she meets at school/the supermarket/out and about said, "sorry Caroline's daughter, can't do that at the moment; my child just sent me a text and I'd be a Bad Parent if I made them wait until I was done at work"?

Eighty per cent of women have children during their lifetime, so that's a lot of adults randomly walking out of the workplace at a moment's notice or refusing to respond to emails.

OP, having read the thread now I would also say that you don't have to let your daughter behave anyhow she likes just because you want her to love you. Sounds like she is pushing your buttons on purpose. I think a bit of tough love may be needed here too.

Hi Caroline. I hope you are OK today. I just wanted to let you know that because of this thread I had a really good conversation with my own daughter yesterday. She presents in a very similar way to your daughter in that I often feel 'blackmailed' by her into doing things for her. And if I don't do it she tells me I don't love her enough. Its been going on for quite a while now and has taken its toll on me as it has on you. As a result of this thread and the helpful insights that people have posted I had a constructive chat with her yesterday. I guess because I was able to unpersonalise it and just relay other people's lived experience she was very open to listening. She admitted that she does behave in that way and I was able to explain my concerns about her having healthy relationships in the future and also to explain the damage it does to us. I didn't ask her to change - just gave her the lowdown on my worries - and she seemed to take it on board. So, thank you. You (and others who have responded to you) have really helped me and I hope this thread has helped you too.

With my daughter, I don’t worry or think about whether she loves me but if I do want to feel her affirmation, I think about our relationship and note that: I am the one she confides in; as she’s got older she’s started to get me thoughtful small presents for Christmas and birthday that show an understanding of my likes; and that she has a desire for me to affirm her. She sent me the most lovely card this Christmas about the mother I am to her. Knowing she appreciates that is more than enough for me.
Regarding your daughter questioning your love. I guess it’s a teenage bargaining tool. She knows you get anxious about whether or not she loves you, so uses the concept of love (yours for her) as a way to weaken you and get what she wants.

I have two daughters, both autistic and I'm autistic myself - and I really really found describing emotions incredibly hard during my own ASD assessment (and part of me was thinking "why the fuck do I need to explain how it feels to be happy - I'm too busy enjoying it to sit down and analyse it") so I do have alexithymia as part of how my brain is wired. I'm also very tactile sensitive - which means I'm not naturally a hugger - my mum finds this very hard to deal with as I'll tense up when she spontaneously hugs me however hard I try not to (I'm fine with hugs when I'm warned they're coming - a colleague who runs our ASD project at work actually checked with me before she hugged me and I really appreciated the consideration!)

One of mine is a real clinger, cuddler, shows of affection all over the place. The other of mine is quite distant, will test boundaries and how you love her constantly and if you don't understand how she's wired - it can feel quite hard at times, but I know she DOES love me - I know that if she was upset I'd be the one she came to and that I'm the stable point in her life - which also means at times I'm the point to kick against and test limits... and that tweenage girls in general are in a really tough situation finding out how to readjust to their new stage in life and society - and we roll with it. I know that I can calm her and de-escalate her when she's becoming emotionally dysregulated better than anyone else (and that's without giving into what she's not happy about as well), and that I can explain things to her in a way that make sense and she'll process - and I think because we're wired very similarly - I don't doubt that she loves me, she's just sometimes mentally swimming in an emotion and hormonal soup where she can't quite make sense of it all and responds accordingly.

I wonder if some therapy for you might be useful to help you process this. Also I think there is more about teenage brain re-mapping here and less about the ASD than it seems. My sister is one of the kindest, most empathetic people I know, but as a teen I remember her declaring our parents should sell the family home and give 1/5 of the money to each child because she was being denied access to her share of the family resources while it was locked up in the house. She wanted to spend her fifth on her hobby, and it was my parents' duty to sell the house to enable that. She's lovely, honestly, it's just the teenage brain goes to some weird places while it's developing.

These conversations sound really unhelpful, to put it mildly, for both of you. You need to look at what you can control to find your own happiness that is not tied to what your soon-to-be teen thinks of you, or even worse, what she can articulate. It's not her job, it's not fair on either of you to have that on her.

It sounds like I'm doing teens down. I actually find them amazing. Try to find the joy in something together. It can be hard with ASC I know, and often means you having to go with her interests rather than your own. But look to find connecting moments and build on them, rather than picking over the negative ones.

@stargirl1701 I agree, you can’t expect your relationship to be NT… I just think of mine and my DS’ relationship as unique and individual, just like it would be with any other person.

He also wipes my kisses away, we joke that it’s because I am cringey and I often kiss attack him which he finds hilarious at 9.

My DD is ND too and I am not sure that she would say that she loves me. (I've never asked.) I love her though and am trying to be the best mum to her that I can be. You can't control how another person feels towards you and in the case of ND teens, there is so much going on in their minds anyway.

If it is any help, my DD is now 17, and I am finding that she displays much more affection (and love?) towards me than she did when she was younger.

My advice would be to try not to overthink things, and not to let her press your buttons!

I think some help for me is probably a good idea as I find myself worrying a lot about if I’m doing enough right with DD because the relationship doesn’t feel as natural for her.
She demands lots of takeaway foods and I would never have agreed when I think back to my older DD but that was because no matter how much I said no to her, I never ever thought she would genuinely think I didn’t love her because of it or anything like that.
I worry so much more with younger DD in case she really does feel unloved or upset because I say no to certain things.