To expect my ASD daughter to love me?

[CryingCaroline]

I’ve just had a heartbreaking conversation with my ASD daughter ( 12 years old ) where she said that she doesn’t feel she loves me, or anyone.

I feel terrible because I burst into tears and she just looked at me and said “ This is why I don’t tell you the truth and just say I love you back when you say it “

It feels physically painful for me to think my young daughter doesn’t love me and possibly never did - she certainly acted like she did when she was younger but as puberty hit she has become far colder and less emotional.

Bang on, Ludovik. This child has done zero wrong. Just because NTs can't understand her very plain and honest communication isn't her fault. Honestly, kids don't owe you performances of 'love'.

Could she mean that she doesn't feel a "love energy" or whatever when she's with you? Maybe she thinks she should feel fireworks? It's possible, the way mother-children relationships are sometimes portrayed in films and other media. My ADHD daughter sometimes tells me that she loves me, but she doesn't feel the "connection" when she hugs me. But other times, I'm certain she does feel it. I don't worry too much about it, to be honest.

She doesn’t have ADHD
My older child does have ADHD / ASD
Interesting you’ve mentioned the rejection disorder as I’ve been researching a lot about that because if I say one of her friends seem nice for instance she will say “ Why don’t you adopt them then and just kick me out? “ which I then probably am over emotional in my reply which is “ I wouldn’t want any other children apart from my own girls “ met with “ That’s so cringey “!!!!
Very hard to know what to say in response back to her

I’ll reply to these after bowling as some of the responses have been so so helpful for me to see things differently - Thank you so much for taking the time to reply!

I can’t believe people are giving you a hard time for bursting into tears, @CryingCaroline. Exactly how much are we supposed to martyr ourselves as mothers, for fuck’s sake?!

Seeing that her words have hurt and upset you is absolutely fine, imo - she needs to understand that the way we treat people and how we speak to them have consequences, and that we can’t take back cruel words once they’ve been spoken. I don’t think it’s healthy or normal to pretend that hearing that your child say they don’t love you wouldn’t be upsetting to anyone.

At her age, she’s entering the very self-absorbed period of puberty and teenagehood, and is trying to work out how she feels and how she relates to others. Would she talk to a therapist, do you think? If so, look for one who knows about ASD & ADHD.

It’s not that she doesn’t love you - she is struggling to conceptualise love

She just doesn't have a point of reference. Commonly children with ASD need alot of support to label and recognise emotion in themselves and others. They might look at movies etc or OTT reactions of people on social media and they might not be able to relate. It can help to watch familiar films and talk about and label the emotional bits, getting them to predict and piece together why someone is angry (they might be hurt) or why they are looking calm and restful (they are safe and cared for by a loving parent). Just an example but it does help.

I believe love comes in many forms and everyone feels it differently. DS13 was diagnosed with HFA one year ago and I have learned so much from him and how different we are. I am physically affectionate and verbally affectionate. I tell him I love him all the time and I usually get a grunt back, if I’m lucky! It doesn’t bother me though as I know he loves me in his own way and every now and again I will get a text saying “best mommy ever!”.

I think you could probably benefit from reading up about autism a bit more if you have time. My life has been opened up to a new world through my son and how he lives his life, and while it is different to my own I’ve learned to work around him and not take things too personally. I wish you well OP x

DD3 can be very similar. Even today, I've written emails on her behalf, I've filled in forms, I've talked through issues, etc., but because I got distracted when she was talking to me about a bread stick, I don't care about her and love one of her sisters more. When I pointed out all that I've done today for her, she said "I didn't ask you to do any of that. You were just ticking jobs off your list. You weren't spending time with me." It hurts, but it's genuinely how she sees it.

if I say one of her friends seem nice for instance she will say “ Why don’t you adopt them then and just kick me out? “

Are you sure she's not joking? I have ASD and this is 100% something I would have said as a child, thinking I was being just oh-so-hilarious with my dry, sarcastic wit (spoiler, I wasn't).

No 100% she is not joking - she is deadly serious and won’t speak to me for a long time after I’ve offended her by saying a friend seems nice / I like someone’s jacket - it can be as simple as that and she will take it that I prefer them to her.

I have read up so so much about ASD before, during and after her diagnosis but I guess the age has also changed things and I definitely need to adapt my way of thinking so that I don’t get so emotional about things that she just doesn’t do / want to do.

The bowling was hard work - I lost by 2 points so she said I probably lost on purpose ( To be honest I would worry if I beat her at anything but I’m genuinely just not very good at bowling so this was a genuine lose to me! ) and then said would you like to go to Starbucks for a drink?
So off we went only for her to seem so shocked when I ordered myself a coffee as “ I’ll hear you drinking that on the way home and you know how triggering it is “
So no drink for me and now she’s annoyed that I didn’t automatically know that would be triggering but usually it’s foods rather than drinks that cause her issues so I’m struggling to keep up with all the changes 😢

OP I can really understand how you felt heartbroken over this. The fact however that your DD could talk candidly and openly with you about her feelings, in a way she couldn’t do with anyone else, is itself a form of emotional intimacy with you. That demonstrates that she loves you.
She feels that she can be herself around you and that’s an absolute prerequisite of loving someone. Doesn’t mean that its not very painful to hear.

I'm so sorry. It sounds like you've had such a rough day, but this internet stranger thinks you're doing a great job! I could be off base, but it does sound as if she's testing her boundaries with you a little (totally normal for the age, but can be very frustrating!). Have you read up on PDA?

My almost 20 year old asd daughter always says I love you if I say it first but she did tell her psychologist that she doesn't love anyone at all but she obviously cares for her family because they do nice things for her.
It's sad for us to hear but my daughter doesn't know any different and if she's happy then I'm happy.

Also worth considering...and I do tell people this a lot, because it often gets forgotten...we autistic people can be real dickheads too, just like anyone else.

Some of this could well be that, particularly given her age.

OP
Reading your last post makes me sad.
You are letting her treat you as an inferior.
This is her childhood, when she learns how to treat people. It should not be that some people are subordinate and can be hurt and ordered around.
A poster earlier mentioned the same thing - that you should start thinking how to teach her consideration for others, and that things are not one way only.
And actually teach her that, rather than just say it and continue acting in the same way as now where she is the only one who matters.

Who are you responding to, OP?
Your posts aren't making sense because you're not quoting whoever you're replying to.

“weirdoldbroad” asked if she was joking when she says things like “ Why don’t you adopt them then and kick me out? “ if I say one of her friends seem nice.
I was saying she absolutely is not joking and will not speak to me for a long time if she’s in offended in some way even though my comments are only because I have to micromanage her friendships so carefully as any little mishap becomes her refusing to go to school which we had all through primary school

She’s 12 - she’s working through her feelings and doesn’t really know what it means to love or not love. She will see representations of love in media and then think that if her feelings don’t match that it means she doesn’t feel love.

I do understand why it’s hard for you but your job is to love her, unconditionally and in every situation, and to tell her this regardless of what she says her feelings are.

She does love you. She just doesn’t know what that actually means or looks like right now because being 12 is confusing and hard even before you factor in being ASD.

SeulementUneFois

I find this so hard to manage as I worry if she genuinely doesn’t just feel love then perhaps she also genuinely doesn’t feel loved either so then I worry about her mental health so find myself definitely over compensating compared to how I parented my elder child
I do try hard to continue to show her what is important to me such as visiting my parents on Boxing Day - she doesn’t like going there so I didn’t see them Christmas Day but she also didn’t understand why I had to visit at all and I made it clear I was going Boxing Day with or without her - she chose not to come

I agree with this. It's not her fault. She'd miss you if you weren't there though.

It sounds like you have had a helluva day CryingCaroline. Life as a mum with a teenage daughter can be hard - and I partly say that remembering how I was with my own mother when I was growing up. Add in how hard the teenage years can be for an ASD girl and you've got a double whammy. Of course you were upset when she said she didn't love you. My daughter has said it to me and it felt like a kick in the teeth at first. But as everyone else has said - she does love you - she just isn't clear on what that means or feels like. Now I try not to worry when my DD is open with me about what she does or doesn't feel. Its great that she's communicating as it is a learning opportunity for us both. Hang in there - I can tell from your post that you are a great mum trying your hardest for your girl. You are clearly thinking things through and trying hard to understand her life and her thoughts. Well done.

You are letting her treat you as an inferior.
This is her childhood, when she learns how to treat people. It should not be that some people are subordinate and can be hurt and ordered

Well, sometimes with PDA traits one of the things that PDAers do, especially under stress, is to treat the person that they are very closest to, in a very controlling way where absolute unquestioning obedience is what they want. If there is any normal level of standing up for themselves from that close person, then the PDAer can get extremely anxious which manifests in great upset or rage.

It’s complicated and frustrating and very difficult to deal with (on both sides of the relationship I can imagine) but its important to remember that it’s coming from a place of very high anxiety and not from the PDAer thinking they are in some way superior to the other person.

The fact that PDAers don’t treat everyone in their lives that way, shows that they are clear about how to treat people.

DS (10) is autistic. He doesn't share a lot of emotion, he will say he is "content" which is happy and calm or he can be "stressed" which covers everything from minor upset to furious. I know he feels things, although not always the things I might feel in the same situation, he just expresses it differently.

I tell him I love him often, for a long time he just responded with "ok". Now and then he will say "I love you back" but I suspect he says this because he knows it makes me smile rather than an urge to tell me his feelings. But, I know that he does love me, maybe differently. He will sometimes tell me I'm his favourite person which I think is probably a more honest expression of his affection, he will do things he knows make me laugh or bring me a sweet he knows I like, today he came with me to the post office when he could have stayed at home. Small things but I think they show how he feels much more than what he says or doesn't.

My SSD daughter has Alexithyma. She can identify live but struggles to identify things like preferences, and didn’t identify tearfulness as depression.