To expect my ASD daughter to love me?

[CryingCaroline]

I’ve just had a heartbreaking conversation with my ASD daughter ( 12 years old ) where she said that she doesn’t feel she loves me, or anyone.

I feel terrible because I burst into tears and she just looked at me and said “ This is why I don’t tell you the truth and just say I love you back when you say it “

It feels physically painful for me to think my young daughter doesn’t love me and possibly never did - she certainly acted like she did when she was younger but as puberty hit she has become far colder and less emotional.

I wrote this for someone else, but it may be relevant for you too!

A really helpful boundary to have with him is ’me things’ and ‘other people things’.

So he can choose for himself to clean his own teeth in the dark. Equally You can choose not to clean his teeth in the dark. So if he wants it dark he does it.

He can choose to let someone sleep in his bed.Hecan’t make someone sleep in his bed. He can’t choose to sleep in someone else’s bed. They get to choose that for their own bed.

I found identifying ‘whose problem is this?’ really helpful. It stopped me getting involved where I wasn’t needed, and allowed me to keep my own boundaries firm around my child. He doesn’t get to clean my teeth, bite me, pull my nose, stop me reading my book.

Theyre really helpful replies
I feel awful for needing her to love me in a way she is unable
I accept her for who she is but she probably doesn’t feel that by the way I’ve acted.
She is perfect the way she is and she will be relieved she no longer has to learn Spanish as I’ve arranged a reduced timetable for her now with the headteacher so she should be ok to attend school tomorrow now

Oh OP I’m so sorry you’re hurt by this, and a bit bewildered by the sounds of it. But really it’s more about a communication gap than anything else. It’s completely natural that you’re assuming that she’s thinking and feeling what you would if you had said what she said. In fact it’s almost impossible as a neurotypical not to make those theory of mind assumptions, anymore than a fish could analyse water - these are the waters you live in.

But this is an example of your neurological processes not mapping. Love is kind of a foggy concept, amorphous, difficult to define, impossible to explain and yet you just know. But autistic brains don’t do foggy concepts. In all likelihood she is experiencing all, or most, of the constituent parts that you could break “loving” into but she doesn’t smush them together into a cloudy miasma. It doesn’t make it less - just different.

And right now she’s a teenager, and living through a developmental drive to autonomy where the bonds to parents are breaking down and she’s stretching out in the world. In more natural circumstances than ours she might have moved out into the world already.

I completely empathise with how shocking and sad this feels for you. I think it was in the movie Coda that there’s a scene where the deaf mum admitted that she felt sad when she was told her baby had perfect hearing and it really resonated for me as the mum of an autistic child navigating the chasm of experiential differences.

Sometimes it’s important to remember that any neurological condition, even the most common typical one, can be a disadvantage. In this case, your natural propensity for woolly thinking, and theory of mind are leading you to very hurtful place.

It might be more helpful (and especially through the next few years) to focus on helping your dd feel loved (and treasured, liked, trusted, respected, safe….) because love is something we experience most in the giving rather than the taking.

I’m not trying to minimise your grief - feel it, and don’t dismiss it, and don’t feel bad for challenging your dd with it. She’s also learning how to navigate this world and you’re her safe place to experiment (being the parent of a teen is brutal) but understand that there’s another way of thinking and being in the world that you cannot grasp where what she said isn’t hurtful or sad and doesn’t mean anything like you think it does. You just have to trust her.

I do think though that next time she expects you to change your plans you need to put a boundary in there.Its not healthy for her to expect people to drop everything for her and she needs to know when you make a commitment to something you should stick to it.

I would have said something like " I would love to do that with you but I've already made plans today and it would be rude to cancel. Let's look at our calendar and set some time aside so we can do it. I'll be back today about X time, would you like me to do something then or bring back ingredients for you to bake?"

DD and I use our Google calendar all the time to put information on, sports matches, after school clubs, visits to family. It helps her know what to expect and helps to teach her to be organised so putting an activity in it like this wouldn't be unusual for us.

Nonplusultra
This is such a helpful response as I really have tried to see it from a different angle and am struggling to so seeing it written out has made things much much clearer
I feel she largely just finds me annoying, over emotional and quite needy but I’m also the one she relies on to sort out all her problems so I guess that’s a good sign that she feels she can trust me.

When she was in a state about Spanish, I said I would sort it out with the school to which she said “ What if you can’t fix it? “
I asked her if she trusted me and she said “ Yes, you’re my parent “
I wonder if she honestly just sees everything I do as things that should be done therefore no thanks are required!

Singleandproud
The problem I have is that she would then ignore me or say things like “ I can’t believe you would pick X to spend time with instead of me. So much for being a good parent “
I honestly can’t tell when she’s genuinely upset or hurt compared to when she may be being a bit manipulative in order to get her own way and because she doesn’t ask to spend time with me like other children do, I take this as her way to want time together and then feel compelled to jump at any chance I get!

I wonder if she honestly just sees everything I do as things that should be done therefore no thanks are required!

My daughter (also 12, also autistic) is VERY like this!

Kids of this age don’t have the insight to be grateful or appreciative of their parents, especially if ND. They’re rigid thinkers. They understand that parents are required to parent and surely there’s no thanks or smiles or hugs required in return?!

I can completely relate to this, she sounds just like my 15 year old ds. He doesn't show any kind of emotion at all, just sarcastic comments. Honestly, the most affectionate thing he does with me is he trusts me to hold his beloved baseball cap when he does sport. I understand, it's really hard. I would love a hug from him but it's not going to happen. He has even made me promise that if he is ever in a coma that I won't hug him!

Then you should know that ASD is not one size fits all.

Nephew is 17 and says he doesn't feel/ understand sadness and doesn't feel love in a way that he thinks others do.

7yo dd is expressive and definitely feels emotions (arguably too much!) What she struggles with is identifying how she feels and why - her emotional literacy is lacking which impacts her emotional regulation. Simple emotions like sad and happy are relatively easy, more complex ones like guilt, shame, embarrassment, pride etc are far trickier to understand and 'label'. I read her 'My Body Sends and Signal' and it was like a light bulb going on.

@CryingCaroline think of it like you are teaching her to be in a relationship with a partner when she's older or even just a friendship. It's entirely unreasonable for her to emotionally blackmail a partner and it is entirely unreasonable for her to emotionally blackmail you whether she realises that's what she is doing or not.

Autism is a social and communication disability, you need to teach her more explicitly than a child who would pick things up innately using appropriate tools.

So you reassure her that you do want to spend time with her and you pick a time which is mutually beneficial and you use tools whether thats a paper calendar or a digital one or something else to manage it. Ideally you need to talk about this when you are both calm so it's not a suprise and she'll receive it better. Using this weekend as a good example, tell her how you really wanted to spend time with her, how you had to move your friends plans and the impact on you and the friend and that you had thought about a better way of managing your time. Show her how to use her calendar, how to send invites so it's on yours as well, how to change the colours too and personalise it. I find my daughter communicates much better digitally and through WhatsApp than she does in person.

I would also perhaps look at your own history to see why this affects you so deeply. Look at previous family and romantic relationships and peer friends and think about whether there were any times when you were rejected or maybe isolated or bullied and whether it's actually this rather than just what your DD has said to you.

OP I really feel for you as another NT mum to ND child. You keep apologising for having what I think are completely normal NT person feelings. Your needs matter too. If your emotional needs in a parent-child relationship can’t be met as you had expected then that’s reasonable to feel sadness or grief around. There will be ways of seeing this that help but you’re not wrong or defective for fearing that your child may not love you.
(even though, as many of us have said, in her way she absolutely does love you.)

Singleandproud
I grew up in the care system so I think I am much more aware of what a childhood “
should “ look like and perhaps I put more pressure on things to be great than others do.
I would have loved parents to help me through difficulties and I suppose that also makes me think that DD should show gratitude for all I do maybe.
DH is away a lot of the time so not a particularly close relationship.

Lushfloral
Your words are very kind and I think you’re absolutely right in that I feel I’m giving everything and getting nothing in return so it feels like I’m grieving for the child I thought I would have almost.
I never realised that was what all these emotions were but you’ve hit the nail on the head there.
In my NT mind, I just assumed my daughter would feel emotionally connected to me like I do to her and we would spend time together having fun at theme parks, enjoying dinners out, beach holidays and snuggling on the sofa watching films - I’ve realised now that this isn’t what DD wants and these things make her unhappy so so I have to let go and accept her fully for her as a person in her own right.
I find it very hard to get the balance right as I constantly worry that she might not feel loved if I’m not showing her very directly how much she means to me.

@CryingCaroline and I think there you have your answer. I think you probably have some unresolved attachment needs of your own having been in the care system. With your older daughter now galavanting and your younger one with increased independence it might be time to look into working on yourself a bit, "healing your inner child" and all that twee stuff might really help you. It'll make you more resilient and build your self esteem too which can only help your relationship with your daughter

Are there any activities you can enjoy together.

Long before I knew she was autistic I got her involved in clubs I'd enjoyed when I was younger and completed at a high level, she hated it and I had to learn that we weren't going to have that shared experience. Instead she loves rugby and I get to stand on the sidelines in the rain and cold which I do not love.

I loved reading, DD can't stand it although was a very early reader. She likes computer programming and likes to talk AT me about it, which I don't love and don't understand.

However we do both love going to the theatre, We go regularly, listening to the soundtrack or finding out Easter eggs before we go. DD also enjoys eating out at nice (quiet) restaurants, I'm not particularly a foodie but it is something we can do together. I learnt to crochet and DD gave it a go, whilst she doesn't love it she does regularly wrap herself up in the blankets I've made her, choosing those over store bought ones. DD likes moss and fungi so we'll go on woodland walks or fossil hunting on the beach, I like the walk part.

There must be some shared activity you can do even if you haven't found it yet. I don't think any of the above are really caused by the autism more they are perfectly norma variation in personality - but the not being able to tolerate the others interest is the autism.

Op, I’m reading all of the replies and for me it can all be condensed into one sentence.

Life is hard enough for our children without us adding to their difficulties by asking them to take care of our needs when they can hardly take care of their own.

For me I’m just happy if we can get my son through a day that he’s enjoyed.

And what people say about mourning the child you thought you’d have - 32 years on I still can’t relate to that on a personal level. I do fleetingly wish things were different for my son but I can’t mourn a person that has never existed.

Life is hard enough for our children without us adding to their difficulties by asking them to take care of our needs when they can hardly take care of their own

sorry, just to make it clear I’m still referring to the ‘love’ aspect of things.

Strawberryjellybelly

I think the issue is that she never really appears to be happy.
Its not like she’s got this massive social circle and is having a great time at school and it’s just me she’s not interested in - that would be perfectly understandable at this age and much like my adult DD who went off to university without a look back and I didn’t crumble or anything as I could tell she’s content.

With younger DD I don’t think she knows what she likes until she doesn’t like it if that makes sense so she relies on me to provide entertainment, we try it, she usually dislikes it for varying reasons and then she holds me responsible for making her unhappy.

At times I haven’t tried to entertain her such as if I’m WFH over a weekend I’m then met with her saying things like “ Clearly work is my priority “ so I ask her what she would like to do as I can finish the work later and then she will retort “ if you haven’t thought of anything as the parent that’s your fault “

It’s honestly not me wishing things were easier for me in all this - it’s knowing how hard she finds everything and then not feeling she can see how hard I’m trying that’s causing me to feel down BUT you’re all right in saying that it is not her job to validate me and I am grateful for the honestly and will take it on board.

honesty (typo)

OP I can relate. Your replies are so kind, I hope you can be as kind to yourself as you would be to another poster, you have had a very tough time of it.

The anxiety in your DD that manifests in all of the criticism she gives, brings to mind PDA. I wonder if that might be something that it helps to look into? I find that even though it’s hard being screamed at and hit if I can understand a bit why it’s happening then that helps a bit. I really wish you well with this.

Lushfloral
PDA has never been mentioned but she definitely does find it hard when asked to do anything she doesn’t want to do - her reactions are far more extreme than I expect and usually she will refuse anything she is not 100% comfortable with.

I told her she no longer has to do Spanish and that she can go to the library instead as I’ve arranged everything with her headmistress and that then led her to screaming at me for embarrassing her and that she is not going to the library - or school at all ever again.
This is after she knew I was having the meeting and said she didn’t care what she had to do instead of Spanish as long as it wasn’t Spanish!
It’s very hard but thank you for noticing the kindness I try and always give as I really do try to always be a good person

Crying, nothing I said is a criticism of you and I’m sorry if it seems that way. And I certainly don’t think you’re trying to make things easier for yourself. My posts are just an alternative way to look at things in the hope that you may get some comfort from them as well as a different way to look at things.

Quite honestly I would say - yes today my work is a priority. Because it is. It pays your bills. What would happen if you did say it?

and I think it’s really important I make it very clear that my son requires 2-1 round the clock care and the example you’ve given of your DD isn’t something that would ever occur with my boy and that my replies have only ever concerned the ‘love’ aspect of things that you’ve mentioned.

I hope this makes it clear that I’m not judging you at all. You’re obviously a very loving mum.

I can definitely see a lot of demand avoidance in your daughter @CryingCaroline. You may have helped her get out of Spanish, but now there is a “demand” to spend that lesson in the library, hence the outburst. Even going back to your OP - having to say that she loves you is a demand.

it pays your bills.

that should be ‘our bills’

I've scanned most of the responses and it doesn't yet look like anyone has made the connection between her comments to you about not having to be grateful because you are the parent and her view of not understanding why anyone would have children.

I absolutely felt the same as a teen (I'm autistic). I will try to explain my logic. There is no going back with children (mostly, voluntary relinquishment beingvery rare here) and so if you make the enormous decision to creat a whole other human, it is absolutely your duty to take care of them in every way they need. Given that it was the parents and not the child's choice to be alive, and they knew there was no 'giving them back' why would the parent the then be insisting of gratitude? Honesty, in my teens, it felt so manipulative when my parents wanted gratitude from me. In my view, they were simply carrying out the duty related to a decision that was entirely theirs. Then chose to have me, they could then chose to be good parents or bad parents but what did that have to do with me?

Now that I'm nearing 40, I still feel the same way about the ridiculousness of choosing to have children but do better understand why parents would be comforted by getting some acknowledgement of thier support as the child grows.

She is still young, she will still be working out a lot of her views of the world.