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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

‘You need to accept that both our mothers are going to move in with us’

359 replies

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 15:24

Is what DH said to me… instant chills

I do not speak the same language as my MIL, not even a little and I find her very very hard work, truthfully there’s a lot of water under the bridge. She’s just turned 60

now to my own mother fractious history. I was the scapegoated child and sibling golden child (single narcissistic mother, at points she was down right abusvie and cruel) the worm has turned somewhat as sibling has very similar narcissistic tendencies as mother and sticky fingers (Steals despite being mid 30s) and no longer talks to mother as was caught in the act. Mother is 70s

both single, divorced and widowed.

is dh right? Truthfully the thought of either of them living with us fills me with dread

what prompted this conversation was we’re planning a 3rd child and dh was making his case to consider a 5/6 bed house for a move, whereas I don’t think staying in a 4 bed with a garden office sounds too awful.

is he right? I don’t know why but I feel quite resentful to take on a mortgage in a much larger house for them to move in, and if one moves in the other will be pissed the other didn’t, and both together, no way.

at least my mum would be bringing capital, his mum wouldn’t be putting anything into the house

OP posts:
Derb · 31/12/2023 18:24

My mother is single as approaching 70 and lives alone with no plans to move in with us or any other sibling. My MIL is from a culture where families all live together. She has told us a couple of times she would like to live with us but I've said to DH absolutely not. Quite honestly our marriage wouldn't survive it! She's vile to me and DH

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 31/12/2023 18:25

Libertyy · 31/12/2023 15:33

You also knew he was from a different culture before you married him so did you not have any conversations about this? The answers from white British people who don’t understand the cultural nuances for looking after our elderly and providing for them won’t be helpful to you

Just because it’s culturally expected for him
to care for his DM in her old age doesn’t mean to say he has to do this. Have seen DH is an only child so it falls on him to step up. Will OP expect to live with her DIL in her dotage or not? (Latter probably not).

And before you ask I worked for a solicitor who had to deal with and advise on these cultural issues with his non white (South Asian) clients.

Angrywife · 31/12/2023 18:27

My answer would be quite simply that they'd be very welcome to move in if that is what he wished, but it's a "one in, one out" policy in my house.

One moves in, and I'd be moving out.

And I'd mean it.

ginasevern · 31/12/2023 18:28

TomatoSandwiches · 31/12/2023 15:27

Don't have a third child, divorce him and let him live with his mother.

Wtf.

This.

And whilst he's at it he can live with your mother too.

Please do not do any of this.

Staniam · 31/12/2023 18:28

Libertyy · 31/12/2023 18:23

sons and daughters are expected, it’s actually traditional for the sons to provide

Show quote history

Provide what? The hands-on, day-to-day care? What if the women would rather provide?

Original poster
Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:30

NaughtybutNice77 · 31/12/2023 18:09

You mentioned language differences so are you and your husband from different cultures? If so I'm shocked this hasn't been discussed before marriage.
I'd expect in many cultures it's normal to care for elderly parents and have 3 generational homes. Statistically these homes offer the best outcome for children. Very common in Indian/Pakistani households. African and Caribbean families often have 'extra' cousins/grandchildren, a Thai wife would expect her husband to send money 'home' etc. So I'm surprised you're surprised.
Thing is, you're married now. You don't have to accept this but it could cost your marriage. I'd hold off with another child until you're sure what you want and what's expected.

Has been discussed and no one said anything about being surprised. I’m aware of his culture here, he’s the only child and son too so it’s even more amplified.

the conclusion we reached was she lives close which she does 15/20 mins away and she can visit if she wants and stay over here and there but not living full time and tbh I feel I’m being very gracious there given how she’s acted.

im more so suprised that he’s all up for my mum moving in, she’s been less than lovely to him also in the past.

OP posts:
DeeCeeCherry · 31/12/2023 18:32

Sounds like cultural differences
I wouldnt want to move in with DCs at an older age although in my culture it's the norm. But if Id married into a different culture they'd kbow about the norms. You should've opened your eyes to and discussed cultural differences once you got serious in the relationship. In speaking he's included your DM as well as his so its not as if he's excluding your DM. You don't like it so youll have to discuss and sort it out. Aside from that he's not said anything wrong at all - his cultural norms are not yours. Its easy for some to say leave him, or just say No. But in reality you may not see this as the road to divorce - youve not said anywhere that your husband isnt approachable so hopefully a talk about expectations will resolve this

LookItsMeAgain · 31/12/2023 18:33

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 17:35

Thing is there’s no way they could be together either… oil and water, they can’t communicate and that’s the least of the problems

plus it’s a larger house and then building that extension which again costs and I feel resentful over that in truth

Show quote history

All being said, whether they get along with each other is neither here nor there. If they both want to live with you that surely has to be part of the terms and conditions of them moving in.

I'm still sticking with the sentence that if they move in, you're moving out.

Original poster
Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:33

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 31/12/2023 18:25

Just because it’s culturally expected for him
to care for his DM in her old age doesn’t mean to say he has to do this. Have seen DH is an only child so it falls on him to step up. Will OP expect to live with her DIL in her dotage or not? (Latter probably not).

And before you ask I worked for a solicitor who had to deal with and advise on these cultural issues with his non white (South Asian) clients.

Edited
Show quote history

Would I expect my DIL to live with me, hells no.

if they wanted to whilst saving for a house, sure, maybe but I think it would be awkward living under each others feet but I’d also not mock her and ostracise her at social events, so there’s that

OP posts:
PBandJ111 · 31/12/2023 18:34

I’d rather get divorced

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 31/12/2023 18:35

Emotionalsupportviper · 31/12/2023 17:42

And don't forget t light the blue touch paper . . . 😈

Show quote history

Why couldn’t that happen?!

Actually I knew of a family the sons were at junior school with me and DB. One of the nans of the family got an offer from bus garage being built to buy her house, she bought a big house with her son and his wife and 2 sons and the other nan (the daughter’s DM) also contributed equally. The size of the house meant they both had 2 granny flats on the ground floor and the son/daughter and 2 sons lived on first floor and attic was converted into bedrooms. Fairly big garden too. They all lived happily together until the nans died. White British family. The house was sold a few years ago.

Original poster
Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:35

Staniam · 31/12/2023 18:28

Provide what? The hands-on, day-to-day care? What if the women would rather provide?

Show quote history

Well ‘traditionally’ man would work aka provide money and the woman would raise family and care for his parents etc

OP posts:
Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 31/12/2023 18:37

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:33

Would I expect my DIL to live with me, hells no.

if they wanted to whilst saving for a house, sure, maybe but I think it would be awkward living under each others feet but I’d also not mock her and ostracise her at social events, so there’s that

Show quote history

Apologies, I thought you were South Asian too so would follow culturally when you got a DIL. I think it’s extra complex for you though.

Justia · 31/12/2023 18:38

I think you need to be realistic that something will need to be done for both of them at some stage and have a workable plan in action.

Your husband has gone to one extreme of moving them both in (though he hasn’t stated when or under what circumstances), you are sticking your head in the sand and refusing to accommodate either of them.

Saying you don’t want the responsibility of your Mum’s two properties sorting out is silly - if she dies you will be facing it and grief at the same time which is a horrible situation and difficult to do at distance too.

Your Mum needs to be closer and her accumulation of stuff sorted while she is still able to do some of it herself. Property should be sold or rented out depending on what is better financially (see point b).
a) Buy a bigger house with a granny annex already built or somewhere that could be converted such as a garage or outbuilding. If you have another child 4 bedrooms is tight as they get older and the additional space will be useful regardless. If your mother comes to live with you and has sold her house, your share of inheritance can pay off the work/additional cost, if she has rented out and her mortgage is paid off then a good chunk of the income can go towards your mortgage.
b) If your mother moves closer but wants to maintain her own property, then you do one of two things - if the two properties elsewhere are more valuable you keep them and rent out, using the income to fund a smaller purchase or rental near you. If they are comparable in value or lesser than the area you are in then you sell up and help Mum buy similar near you. If the latter option, this could release some inheritance for you to make life easier with another child and to move so that you have more room. Again, it will be needed regardless of the mother/mil situation.

With regard to MIL there is no reason to do anything unless she becomes very unwell or unable to cope. She is still working and I don’t think you need to worry about anything until she is about 70, if she doesn’t collapse from a heart attack or develop cancer etc in the meantime.

The main priority is moving your Mum closer because the current situation is not workable in the event she needs help. And sorting out her life and two properties at the point where she needs care or after death will be an absolute ballache - I really cannot emphasise that to you enough, sort it now while she is fit and well, because otherwise it is a very stressful mess.

Second priority is get yourself a bigger house if you can afford it. 5 people in a 4 bed is fine until the kids grow up a bit and then you have their friends all trailing in here there and everywhere. Get the bigger house so you have room for Polly, Joe and Emily coming to stay and space for the grannies if they are in dire need of care.

If it gets to that stage it’s a few years max. Once they need lifted to the loo and so forth they have to go into a home anyway.

2mummies1baby · 31/12/2023 18:39

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:23

Please read the updates we’ve had this conversation prior to marriage and then after

Show quote history

Sorry, my fault for not RTFT. Remind him of the conversation you had where you said you would never live with her because of her behaviour towards you. Why is he ignoring that?

Gonnagetgoingreturnsagain · 31/12/2023 18:40

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:33

Would I expect my DIL to live with me, hells no.

if they wanted to whilst saving for a house, sure, maybe but I think it would be awkward living under each others feet but I’d also not mock her and ostracise her at social events, so there’s that

Show quote history

His MIL and family sound awful mocking and ostracising you at social events. No wonder you do not want her living with you.

Noseybookworm · 31/12/2023 18:42

Just tell him no, that's not going to happen. And keep saying it until he gets it!

Original poster
Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:46

Justia · 31/12/2023 18:38

I think you need to be realistic that something will need to be done for both of them at some stage and have a workable plan in action.

Your husband has gone to one extreme of moving them both in (though he hasn’t stated when or under what circumstances), you are sticking your head in the sand and refusing to accommodate either of them.

Saying you don’t want the responsibility of your Mum’s two properties sorting out is silly - if she dies you will be facing it and grief at the same time which is a horrible situation and difficult to do at distance too.

Your Mum needs to be closer and her accumulation of stuff sorted while she is still able to do some of it herself. Property should be sold or rented out depending on what is better financially (see point b).
a) Buy a bigger house with a granny annex already built or somewhere that could be converted such as a garage or outbuilding. If you have another child 4 bedrooms is tight as they get older and the additional space will be useful regardless. If your mother comes to live with you and has sold her house, your share of inheritance can pay off the work/additional cost, if she has rented out and her mortgage is paid off then a good chunk of the income can go towards your mortgage.
b) If your mother moves closer but wants to maintain her own property, then you do one of two things - if the two properties elsewhere are more valuable you keep them and rent out, using the income to fund a smaller purchase or rental near you. If they are comparable in value or lesser than the area you are in then you sell up and help Mum buy similar near you. If the latter option, this could release some inheritance for you to make life easier with another child and to move so that you have more room. Again, it will be needed regardless of the mother/mil situation.

With regard to MIL there is no reason to do anything unless she becomes very unwell or unable to cope. She is still working and I don’t think you need to worry about anything until she is about 70, if she doesn’t collapse from a heart attack or develop cancer etc in the meantime.

The main priority is moving your Mum closer because the current situation is not workable in the event she needs help. And sorting out her life and two properties at the point where she needs care or after death will be an absolute ballache - I really cannot emphasise that to you enough, sort it now while she is fit and well, because otherwise it is a very stressful mess.

Second priority is get yourself a bigger house if you can afford it. 5 people in a 4 bed is fine until the kids grow up a bit and then you have their friends all trailing in here there and everywhere. Get the bigger house so you have room for Polly, Joe and Emily coming to stay and space for the grannies if they are in dire need of care.

If it gets to that stage it’s a few years max. Once they need lifted to the loo and so forth they have to go into a home anyway.

this is basically what dh was saying apparently. I’ll be back to the thread in a bit it’s bed time so need to bath the kids

OP posts:
Staniam · 31/12/2023 18:52

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:35

Well ‘traditionally’ man would work aka provide money and the woman would raise family and care for his parents etc

Show quote history

Thanks, @Wigglytuff123, for confirming my original point.

CharlotteRumpling · 31/12/2023 19:07

There is this other post on MN where the poster is being urged to leave her penniless homeless unemployed mum to fend for herself.

Would it be OK for me to condemn that culture too? Or is it only ok to be dsmissive of cultures that take care of the elderly at home? Not that I am saying the OP should do it. But the general dismissiveness - oh well S Asian women have no lives- is grating.

Justia · 31/12/2023 19:07

Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 18:46

this is basically what dh was saying apparently. I’ll be back to the thread in a bit it’s bed time so need to bath the kids

Show quote history

@Wigglytuff123

Speaking as someone who has navigated caring for and sorting out the estates and belongings of several family members, I don’t think your husband is being unreasonable but practically planning ahead for the worst case scenario and ensuring your family has more space as it grows larger too (a granny annex would be useful for an older teen/young adult too).

Whenever an elderly person becomes unwell it is much more demanding and complicated by contrast to caring for children, because they are bigger, have experienced independence and the paperwork involved is monumentally enormous. It’s also harder to get their needs met be it privately or via nhs.

It has a negative impact on the whole family, is hugely disruptive, stressful and traumatic.

Being preemptive and sorting out as much in advance when the waters are calm is the sensible and preferred option. If you have the chance to do so, please do for the sake of your well-being and that of your kids.

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 31/12/2023 19:07

Justia · 31/12/2023 18:38

I think you need to be realistic that something will need to be done for both of them at some stage and have a workable plan in action.

Your husband has gone to one extreme of moving them both in (though he hasn’t stated when or under what circumstances), you are sticking your head in the sand and refusing to accommodate either of them.

Saying you don’t want the responsibility of your Mum’s two properties sorting out is silly - if she dies you will be facing it and grief at the same time which is a horrible situation and difficult to do at distance too.

Your Mum needs to be closer and her accumulation of stuff sorted while she is still able to do some of it herself. Property should be sold or rented out depending on what is better financially (see point b).
a) Buy a bigger house with a granny annex already built or somewhere that could be converted such as a garage or outbuilding. If you have another child 4 bedrooms is tight as they get older and the additional space will be useful regardless. If your mother comes to live with you and has sold her house, your share of inheritance can pay off the work/additional cost, if she has rented out and her mortgage is paid off then a good chunk of the income can go towards your mortgage.
b) If your mother moves closer but wants to maintain her own property, then you do one of two things - if the two properties elsewhere are more valuable you keep them and rent out, using the income to fund a smaller purchase or rental near you. If they are comparable in value or lesser than the area you are in then you sell up and help Mum buy similar near you. If the latter option, this could release some inheritance for you to make life easier with another child and to move so that you have more room. Again, it will be needed regardless of the mother/mil situation.

With regard to MIL there is no reason to do anything unless she becomes very unwell or unable to cope. She is still working and I don’t think you need to worry about anything until she is about 70, if she doesn’t collapse from a heart attack or develop cancer etc in the meantime.

The main priority is moving your Mum closer because the current situation is not workable in the event she needs help. And sorting out her life and two properties at the point where she needs care or after death will be an absolute ballache - I really cannot emphasise that to you enough, sort it now while she is fit and well, because otherwise it is a very stressful mess.

Second priority is get yourself a bigger house if you can afford it. 5 people in a 4 bed is fine until the kids grow up a bit and then you have their friends all trailing in here there and everywhere. Get the bigger house so you have room for Polly, Joe and Emily coming to stay and space for the grannies if they are in dire need of care.

If it gets to that stage it’s a few years max. Once they need lifted to the loo and so forth they have to go into a home anyway.

OP has said her mother is an abusive narcissist, why are any of her needs a problem for OP to solve?

I don't think she's 'sticking her head in the sand' I think she's being clear what her healthy boundaries are in relation to people who have been abusive and / or nasty to her.

Original poster
Wigglytuff123 · 31/12/2023 19:13

CharlotteRumpling · 31/12/2023 19:07

There is this other post on MN where the poster is being urged to leave her penniless homeless unemployed mum to fend for herself.

Would it be OK for me to condemn that culture too? Or is it only ok to be dsmissive of cultures that take care of the elderly at home? Not that I am saying the OP should do it. But the general dismissiveness - oh well S Asian women have no lives- is grating.

I get what you mean it’s grating but surely you can see in some pockets of the s Asian community it is organised to ensure the woman has no life, no earning potential and limited education to ensure that she is at home and is the carer for the children and the parents. She (in these scenarios) often moves into the parents IL home, so she even in divorce she has nothing

OP posts:
CharlotteRumpling · 31/12/2023 19:19

Yes @Wigglytuff123 you are right it can happen that way. But I have many, many highly educated friends who also look after their parents or inlaws in their homes. Really no point in comparing an individualistic culture to a familial one. That family gives as well as takes in my experience. Many of my friends relied on their MILs for childcare.

In your situation you are only 15 minutes away from your MIL so I do not think you are being unreasonable in not agreeing for her to move in. Perhaps your DH is thinking 20 years ahead?

OnceUponATimeInChristmasTime · 31/12/2023 19:19

Christ almighty. Absolutely not. My mother in law has started to 'jokingly' drop hints at us having a granny annex for her. It's a firm, unequivocal nope. There are numerous siblings of my other half, all of whom have spare rooms, she is welcome to explore those options. I have been open with my own mom, it's just not on the cards.
I would consider moving somewhere where there was a possibility of a house next door or in the same street. That is my limit.
It is a hard boundary for me.

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