Ugh men are gross

[crochetmonkey74]

I say this as someone who would like to meet someone , but currently rethinking it...
I'm in a pub waiting for a friend for our annual nye lunch. A nice pub. In walk 3 couples. Roughly mid to late forties, all look nice and well dressed. Bit of chat and the women of the couples say goodbye and go off for a bit of shopping and will be back in an hour. Kisses all round, bye etc
Now the women are gone, I can hear everything the blokes are saying (while I'm pretending to read my book and go on mumsnet)
Topics they have covered so far (and I wish I was making this up)
1.One of them hasn't had a poo for a few days , went to toilet came back and showed photos of what he's done in the pub toilet. It was massive apparently and they all looked at it.

1. They were all at a party for Christmas eve and a different friends daughter is definitely 'smashable' even though she is only 17
2. Sienna Miller is fit and knows it so you could do what you want to her. They then were googling porn pictures of her.
3. The band 10cc is a joke on the average amount of semen a man produces but the one regularly covers his wife back in it and there's loads more than that.
4. The barmaid is too fat to shag unless you're desperate

These are normal looking attractive men who anyone would think look well dressed, seem like 'good' men etc but they acted totally different when their partners were here before they went shopping. . I can sit here and listen as I am fat and middle aged so invisible to them. I'm not a prude, but the switch was Shocking. Those women would probably never think their partners spoke like that.

Ispy

"I am a mum. I have NEVER been broody."

That's your experience. Whether or not you are a mum, I am pretty certain that the hormones in your body have a significant effect on whether or not you want to have sex. That was the point of my post millymog11 · Today 14:41. A percentage (but not all) women who feel horny also want to get pregnant at some point during their pre menopausal years.

But either way,I am saying that is a significant factor (hormones) in why women might be broody in the first place and can overlook the behaviour described in the OP which I would bet is pretty normal amongst a large percentage of men.

The poo discussion with photo I find disgusting but that's just me - I know some people (male and female) who don't mind talking about poo, and find it a great source of humour.

The various sex comments don't really shock me, apart from the daughter one as she is only 17 (that IS really bad I agree).

When I am with female friends we talk about sex in graphic detail, talk about men we fancy and would like to have sex with, etc. I think a lot of people talk about sex with same sex friends? Clearly not all, but many do. I wouldn't be especially offended if my husband discussed our sex life with close male friends I don't think, providing he wasn't insulting me or anything. I wouldn't like him discussing it with female friends, but that's totally different .....

If people never talk about sex, after all, how do they find out if something is wrong or missing in their sex lives? I certainly learned to set the bar higher than my early disappointing sexual encounters in part by discussing them with girlfriends.....

The googling porn I am opposed to personally because of the prevalence of trafficked women being harmed in porn, but I can't be shocked that people watch it when it is so common and popular. Indeed, I guess porn featuring a celeb is more likely to be "ethical porn", in the sense you can be pretty confident she hasn't been trafficked? (Presuming it was filmed with her consent - I don't know any details of the porn they were looking at).

"ifI was in a group of men I would have to say something aboutthat"

The reason none of them said anything is they all felt the same way about said 17 year old girl. It only takes one of those men in that group to act on that and the others would probably follow as well to be honest. Even without anyone acting on the thought, everyone thinks its fine to mentally pass around the 17 year old girl like a piece of meat.

Listening in to somebody else's conversations then posting them online is pretty poor behaviour.

Ugh, women are such gossips.

Part of it is a male group thing - put enough men in a group and testosterone-fulled mob mentality takes over - but the other part of it is alcohol-driven. Pub culture is normalised in this country, along with 'boys will be boys' and 'just one of the lads'.

It's toxic.

Research shows that so many men don't have deep bonds - they'll go for a drink with anyone, but they don't have 'besties' in the same way that many women do - and loneliness is one of the biggest risk factors in male suicide. If we ditched this lad culture and men didn't go around peacocking at each other over who could be the more extreme/gross, I do wonder if male mental health would improve (as well as women feeling safer).

Sadly, I just don't see how we get there, as this is all just so deeply deeply ingrained in British life.

Sound more like what me and friends were like as teenage boys than men 🤷‍♂️ Tho I'm well aware plenty carry on with that behaviour.

I wouldn't be 100% certain the women know what they're like. I know men who change depending on company they're in, particularly all male company. I've had occasion to roll eyes or object on occasion to what's being said to me. Also one place I worked, an all male team, some appalling things said about women. I was too new, and unsure about my position, but it would've been worthy of an email to HR about conduct of my colleagues and manager

@millymog11 my initial reply to you was in response to your comment about not understanding what was "in it" for women in a sexual relationship with a man after kids. Not all relationships are to make children. Some women enjoy sex (shocker), particularly with their partners. Not all men are horrible and not all women only want babies. Some men are lovely and some women like having a sexual relationship for the sake of sex.

How do you know she doesn't like it?!

IpsyUpsyDaisyDoos · Today 16:05 fine, I am sure all of that is true.
My point was that - even if this does not apply to you personally - enough women have enough of an overlap between feeling horny and feeling broody pre menopause to allow them to shut their eyes and ears to the men who want to have sex with them behaving as OP describes.

I am not sure why you are arguing with me unless you are actually male or you are female and take someone disliking the original post as a personal attack on you for some reason.

@millymog11 I'm not arguing with you. I tried to answer your wondering around what was in it for women and you just kept telling me it's all hormone related. It's like you were looking for a reason that women can't just want to be in a relationship with their partners for the sake of being with them. Has to be hormonal.

And no, I'm not a man, although if I was I could go to the papers for a fair chunk of money for having managed to have a baby. I do dislike sweeping generalisations about men being awful or women being bitches or all men want is sex and women hate it etc. We're all individuals. Can't tar everyone with the same brush because of their gender.

I remember when I was 23 being in the pub on a work night out, and listening to an extremely drunk group of men that were part of a rugby team singing rude songs. A particularly gross one was about having sex with a woman on her period! The worse thing was, that one of the men was my manager's husband, and she thought it was hilarious, as did everyone else!

She likes him telling his mates in the pub ?

How do you know she doesn't like it? Without going into too much detail my DP does this to me because I love it.

YANBU - I've been an 'honorary bloke' and seen and heard things exes have shared with their mates and obviously have plenty of experience of female only friend and work groups and, in my experience, there is a very marked difference with intent and tone.

Women can get 'gross' but it's usually in the spirit of sharing and finding out what is normal - stuff like nipple hairs, sex experience, health stuff etc. and can be really helpful and bonding. And when fancying men is talked about it's usually about particular men you want to go out with/get to know or yeah, shag. So it's not dehumanising or objectifying men in general and the talk isn't humiliating - no talk of smashing back doors in, 'ruining' them etc, just liking or wanting them.

With men, it's objectifying, vulgar and reinforces this shit among each other.

Plus the 'threat' or intent is so different - the tone behind a woman saying to her mates 'i'd really love to shag Brad from the mechanics' is so different to a man talking about 'wanting to hang out the end of that' or wanting to smash a 17 year old. And anyone who can't see that is being disingenuous or incredibly naive.

Maybe I'm just an old prude but I would struggle to respect a man who spoke like that. And the worst part for me would be the adapting their personality for different audiences. They know its wrong to openly perve on a 17 year old but in their little group it isn't. That's what is the most chilling to me. And the 'do whatever you want to sienna miller" like their fantasy is to do stuff that they couldn't do with a 'normal' woman.
It makes you wonder what exactly they want to do to women.

It's not the act that's dehumanising, it's the casually sharing intimate details of their sex life to his mates

You have no idea what she tells her friends.

@Fannyfiggs yep, me too 🤣

I feel like I'm being gaslit.
Nothing about what they said is OK

Omg if anyone overheard me & my work bestie talking, they would probably think we are gross. We are both mum's in our late 40's but we talk about some inappropriate shit & probably quite sexist. We work on building sites so I think we've developed quite a course sense of humour.

Do you talk about smashing men and being sexually violent to them

Attractive, well dressed, low class 🤔

I’ve worked with men for many years, & the lovelier they appear to begin with are the worst!

You're not being gaslit. You can feel how you want about what they said. Other people can feel more or less disgusted by it.

The only thing you need to remember is that not all men behave this way, so if you want a relationship, don't let that group put you off.

That’s awful. I perhaps naively believe that most men aren’t quite as bad as that when together. Some will be, but many won’t. 🙏

I know many men who I love and i deeply believe wouldn't talk like this in a group of men but maybe I'm being too trusting.
I also knew a few who might feel uncomfortable but are too cowardly to speak up and a couple who would have fitted in with the group today.