To think there's too much left wing dissonance

[LefthandRight]

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

I think it's because if the NHS was our only option and was as fucked as it is now, we would see much more action and turmoil across society that could create change.
As it is those of us lucky enough to be able to go private can just bitch about the NHS while paying to get things sorted and saying "it's important to keep as a concept" and so nothing really changes for the people who don't actually have a choice

@Thepeopleversuswork "I think trying to position the left as the only political doctrine to contain elements of hypocrisy is used as a trick by aging leftists as they seek cover to pivot to the right (because it suits them better - usually for financial reasons)."

In my experience the "lefties are hypocrites" line has always been taken by right wingers to try to distract from the cruelty and amorality of the right. "You want equality, but I saw you have a glass of champagne last night" "If you really supported the workers you'd give all your money to the poor" "I don't see you filling your house with refugees." All that sort of stuff.

This!

And although atheist I am a Jew!

And I've been here a long time but wonder why must every thread these days on Mumsnet be hijacked by the anti-trans brigade?

I don’t think most of these are left or right wing. You’re lumping things into boxes for convenience so you can point and shout, ‘Look, woke Lefties’ even when it doesn’t fit the reality of many people’s beliefs or values. Politically, I’m centre left. 1997’s Tony Blair’s Labour was about the best fit for me and still would be. I don’t believe in gender ideology (I’m assuming you mean T instead of L in LGBT) but I’m a biologist and biological reality trumps preferred beliefs any day. I have zero problem going private if I need to - I happily pay for the NHS but recognise that it is now doing a job it was never meant to do and it is stretched beyond capacity. If I go private it relieves a little of the pressure and means someone else gets seen a little earlier - etc. etc.

You seem to see the world in black and white when in fact most of us live in the shades of grey in between. Ultimately, we’re all trying to do the best we can within the limits of the resources we have. None of us will be able to please everyone but I’d rather be the one trying than the one out there throwing stones.

Not anti-trans. Pro Women and girls.

Most people feel terribly sorry for people mutilating themselves and living a harder life in order to feel happier. Its a terrible mental illness being encouraged by rogue doctors. No one wishes them ill. But women and girls must have safe spaces and fair sport and its as simple as that.

Ah, the first reference to "virtue signalling". Which is basically an attempt to denigrate decent language and action. See also "do Golders"

I think (as it sounds you are) if you are quietly living your life, within your socialist principles as far as practical and not virtue signing to others how moral you are and how immoral they are and thinking you are better than other people, I think that's fine. People can forgive a little deviation from The True Red Path due to the circumstances you find yourself (disagree with the use of private medicine to relieve the pressure on the NHS as the Labour Party don't allow that same argument to apply to private ed..both relevant to life chances....consistency is important ).

As long as the left can bestow the same courtesy to the right and allow them to live their life as they wish then all is good. We used to be able to do this. People didn't feel the need to ram their contradictory views down people's necks. It's very tedious.

I must confess I wasn’t expecting a right wing convention when I opened this thread.

Totally unreasonable @LefthandRight. Intelligent humans are complex and nuanced leading to holding sometimes apparently conflicting beliefs.

@Mummyford "I think most people, if they're honest with themselves, fall somewhere like me in understanding at least in part where self-interest clashes with theoretical beliefs."

Yes, this. And because we can't do everything doesn't mean we should do nothing.

What is it you are actually doing out of interest? When you say "doesnt mean we should do nothing". This is a genuine question. Because people don't seem to think there's a contradiction
with using private education and healthcare as a socialist. What else do you do to "be left wing" other than vote Labour? I'm interested as in the last 20 years it seems very different from what it used to be for.

I’ve never felt more politically homeless.

Not in 2019?

No.

I consider men in women's prisons and sports etc a far left view.

Tell Penny Mordant and Jamie Wallis that.

You missed private school. Hate them as the prime source of inequality except when their own children attend (usually with a hand wringing excuse about why their little darling wouldn't cope in state school, like they're just so gifted / neuro diverse etc).

Interesting. Do you mean that these people don’t stay in multicultural areas on holidays or that they don’t want to holiday with a load of holiday makers from different countries?

honestly who supports LGBT rights but doesn't support lesbian rights?

Honestly, a whole bunch of people. Did you think misogyny disappears just because a woman is gay?

@Walkingwashingmachine "Because people don't seem to think there's a contradiction
with using private education and healthcare as a socialist."

Don't they? Personally, I don't know anyone who is committed to a left wing ideology who does either of those things.

Exactly.

It's somehow acceptable to be rampantly selfish if you're a Conservative but if you vote Labour or show sympathy with any left-wing cause you are expected to live a hair shirt existence giving half your income to Amnesty International or the Party and eschewing anything with a vague association with wealth. Any Labour voter or supporter of any left wing cause is considered a hypocrite if they aren't basically a communist.

God forbid you should ever drink champagne.

Both come to think of it. They're also scathing about eg Brits in Spain living in enclaves, not learning the language and having some dubious cultural habits, but somehow back home in the UK the reverse wouldn't apply

Curlewkate

Exactly. Youve hit the nail on the head very perceptively. There are an awful lot of hypocrites who aren't 100% committed socialists then. Including certain Labour MPs/former PMs. When I mean elitist schools I include those that self-select.

I was mainly referring to the discussion and views above on this thread being slightly contradictory in that many posters state they are left wing but have no problem with private provision. I wonder why they consider themselves socialists then? I don't know but am interested as to how else to tick that box. I can't work it out these days.

I tend to agree with some of these and have encountered many non thinking left wing people, but you forgot "all black and brown people and all women must think exactly like us, how dare they be even slightly right wing".

I will never be a vegan because it doesn't agree with my stomach, and because my DS would never get any protein if we all went vegan.

I also don't really know what a monocultural holiday is, even though we seek out more diverse holiday locations due to not wanting my DD (mixed ethnicity) to stick out like a sore thumb. However most places in France/Spain and most of the South of England fit this bill, and we aren't a "bagging Munros while camping" type of family. Maybe hiking in Scotland is a monocultural holiday?

This.

The left abandoned me.

For being homosexual, a woman who didn't see a birth right duty of pandering to and serving men, for being disabled and wanting things like a same sex carer or equality of access. While wittering about how they are the champions of LGB and feminism and inclusion.

Not to mention I can't stand the hypocrisy of head patting the dear little souls with minority faiths and cultures and disabilities unless their faith, culture and disability or having been battered by a bloke means that they need a single sex space, which involves thwarting men with a desire to use women and women's spaces for their emotional and sexual needs.

These are not left values. We don't have a left political party still in the UK. Just a lot of people who like virtue signalling and identifying as being left. Hypocrisy and prejudice not brave enough to own itself is a really grotty thing.

Another hypocritical, racist leftie trait is call names to any non-white person who is not a leftie. They are not true black or Asians, they are coconuts, they have abandoned their morals/roots. In modern times, racism coming from the left has been far more insidious, toxic and damaging.

But that works both ways.

I'm a centric voter and probably slightly more left but have voted all parties in the past.

None of my left wing Labour supporting friends are anything like described above.

My very staunch Tory friend still only managed to argue positively about anything they've done with "Boris got the vaccines done" and "they are all as bad as each other"

Labour supporter and voters aren't the issue. It's the Tory's not giving us any reason to keep them in charge after 13 years of destroying the country.