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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think there's too much left wing dissonance

602 replies

LefthandRight · 31/12/2023 00:19

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
WhatNoUsername · 31/12/2023 02:28

So you think people have wide ranging opinions. Stop the press!

I have opinions that would be regarded as left wing, some "centrist" and some that would be regarded as right wing. Politics covers almost everything so I wouldn't expect anything different. Most people don't conform to one political "wing". I would hope that people could make their own minds up without thinking "oh I'm left wing so I have to think x".

Islandermummy · 31/12/2023 02:48

Also what is a monocultural holiday?

OnBronze · 31/12/2023 03:02

BethDuttonsTwin · 31/12/2023 02:23

Indeed OP. So many luxury beliefs held by “lefties” who are actually just the middle and upper middle classes who sneer at the working classes and poor, who cannot afford to go along with the nonsense, but the middle classes genuinely believe they’re good and righteous people. MN is jammed to the rafters with such types.

I'm trying to get my head around some of this thread, but help me out with the poor 'who cannot afford to go along with this nonsense,' please? What is the unaffordable nonsense?

jillgreen · 31/12/2023 03:16

Agree 100%.

See also: those who self-righteously bang on about white supremacy and colonialism but will quietly buy cheap clothes made in sweat shops in Bangladesh/Vietnam/Cambodia.

pleasejustnawta · 31/12/2023 03:24

Aye that's just nonsense OP! I'm a Leftie and most lefties (and people I know) are not like that at all! We are just folk trying to get by ffs...

Coyoacan · 31/12/2023 03:33

I agree. I've been pretty shocked at the dismissing of Israeli women's trauma over the last few weeks

How many dead Palestinians will make you feel that Israeli women have been taken seriously?

I, personally, haven't heard anyone dismiss their trauma, but I do not understand the logic of killing children in revenge.

Badgerandfox227 · 31/12/2023 03:40

I do get what you mean OP.

I know a big Jeremy Corbyn fan who has fingers in lots of pies and fiddles their tax to pay hardly any.
Other vocal lefties who earn over £100k but disagree that income tax should be raised, because they struggle too.
Won’t move to an area that’s near council housing - literally said this
They pay to go private for dentist and medical treatment for them and their children.
Have gone vegan because of environmental issues but drive massive gas guzzlers and have several holidays a year involving air travel.

I find some people like to be vocal about being Left orientated, but if you have them a questionnaire on their values would be right leaning all the way.

Watervolt · 31/12/2023 04:48

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 02:21

bigger point is the fact that so many proud lefties are hypocrites about environmental and animal rights issues, scoffing the flesh of every kind of creature on our planet for their own pleasure. A lot are too cowardly to commit to veganism in the first place
Cowardly? Ridiculous position. I'm not vegan but know people who are, close family members too - surely you do as much as you can if you are one as you don't believe in killing animals? Nobody's perfect and they'd be of the mind that any reduction in suffering or consumption is good
WTF this has to do with being "left" is anyone's guess lol.
All vegans are left wing now, OP?

"Veganism is a philosophy and way of living which seeks to exclude—as far as is possible and practicable—all forms of exploitation of, and cruelty to, animals..."

There is no need to indulge in animal abuse whatsoever. Yet so many still stuff their faces with animal flesh while purporting to be in favour of animal rights and environmentalism. When lefties don't bother to lift a finger, the square does not circle.

It is ignorance, it is cowardice, it is fingers-in-ears-lalala-ing.

Thementalloadisreal · 31/12/2023 05:21

Does it hurt the NHS to support it in principle but not directly use if?

Is someone a terrible hypocrite if they believe the NHS should be properly funded and not crumbling/on its knees, but they go private - in theory it alleviates the pressure by one patient (or more, if kids too)?

Thementalloadisreal · 31/12/2023 05:29

Have gone vegan because of environmental issues but drive massive gas guzzlers and have several holidays a year involving air travel.

But this is still better for the environment than driving a car and going on holiday without being vegan, which most people still do.
The fact that they’re not perfectly avoiding all causes of climate change doesn’t make the things they are doing ineffective or hypocritical. Most people aren’t doing any of it and use the ”well they aren’t perfect either” argument about vegans to continue not to do anything at all.

LizHoney · 31/12/2023 06:02

PurpleChrayne · 31/12/2023 00:49

100%.

I've been abandoned by my leftie pals due to my gender criticality and my Judaism.

So sorry to hear this x

Perfectlystill · 31/12/2023 06:56

I agree OP esp the first one

araiwa · 31/12/2023 07:10

My roses are gonna win awards after I read that op to them

Letterbix · 31/12/2023 07:29

Thementalloadisreal · 31/12/2023 05:29

Have gone vegan because of environmental issues but drive massive gas guzzlers and have several holidays a year involving air travel.

But this is still better for the environment than driving a car and going on holiday without being vegan, which most people still do.
The fact that they’re not perfectly avoiding all causes of climate change doesn’t make the things they are doing ineffective or hypocritical. Most people aren’t doing any of it and use the ”well they aren’t perfect either” argument about vegans to continue not to do anything at all.

Completely agree with this. It's impossible to live a perfect life. There are conflicts with everything. Be vegan! But don't eat anything ultra processed. And almond milk kills bees so stop buying that. And don't eat dairy, but palm oil as an alternative is killing orangutans so don't eat that either. Avoid synthetic materials as bad for environment, but avoid anything from an animal too. And make sure everything is ethically sourced to avoid people trafficking, all the while living on a shit wage because I work in the public sector trying to help people so I can't afford any of the ethical shopping routes so I don't buy new clothes, and I don't have nice things and life is a struggle, then someone says to me "I thought you cared about the environment, why is that cardboard in your general waste bin" and you think FUCK YOU WHY BOTHER

I'm just trying to do my best. I'm never gonna be perfect but why would that mean I shouldn't try? I've never understood the argument of "you can't get everything right, so don't bother trying to get anything right".

Exasperatednow · 31/12/2023 07:33

Because the right is so coherent....
Esp that new conservative lot who go round telling everyone that they're really not a strange right wing sect.

MichelleScarn · 31/12/2023 07:35

Islandermummy · 31/12/2023 02:01

Awwww guilty as charged... you just described me! (Except I'm horrified by the current swell in antisemitism)

Thing is, most humans are hypocritical in some ways. Rarely are people completely consistent and logical

So you're ok with female hating philosophy and culture?

jasflowers · 31/12/2023 07:43

MichelleScarn · 31/12/2023 07:35

So you're ok with female hating philosophy and culture?

Show quote history

No thats why i'll be voting to get rid of the Tory MP in my area.

Fed up with the last 13 years where my rights and those of my DD have gradually been removed or watered down.

However, expect to see many more posts like @LefthandRight has written, as the 'right get increasingly panicky.

Sunak now has a lower popularity rating than even Bojo had when he resigned lol!

TempestTost · 31/12/2023 07:51

I don't think all of your examples are similar, OP.

Some represent disagreements about what the proper "leftist" response is. Or that there is, within the left, several competing ideologies. The left includes people who are the kind of low level worker socialists who focus mainly on empowerment of working class communities; some are committed to identity politics, some are actually communists. These are different and in many ways incompatible ideologies, but all of the left.

Some represent certain people being simplistic and black and white thinkers.

Some are related to the fact that whatever our ideals, we all live in the world and society we actually find ourselves in, and this often means it's totally impossible to live up to our ideals. Just try existing outside capitalism, for example.

All this being said though, I do think there is often a failure on the left to deal with real people and the real political landscape, and this lends itself to a tendency to gloss over self-reflection.

TempestTost · 31/12/2023 07:54

What is a monoculture holiday, btw?

Moonwatcher1234 · 31/12/2023 08:04

LefthandRight · 31/12/2023 00:19

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

What a load of old twaddle.

Squiblet · 31/12/2023 08:14

Why is this a problem?

If we were all 100% rigorous in our adherence to every facet of a particular ideology, the world would be a pretty scary place.

itsgettingweird · 31/12/2023 08:17

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 31/12/2023 01:07

Not all of these opinions are ‘dissonance’ though, are they? I’m a vegetarian but my (rescue) cat is an obligate carnivore. I have to buy her meat or she will die. Of course there’s the argument that cats shouldn’t be pets, but she exists and needed someone to care for her. I do remove my body hair a lot of the time because I prefer my skin to be hair free - but I don’t think I - or anyone else - should dictate what do you with your leg hair. It’s even possible to condemn Hamas and 7/10 and also believe that innocent Palestinians shouldn’t have the shit bombed out of them in retaliation. It’s possible to think further than your own nose, OP! The world can be more complex than it might seem at first glance.

Excellent response alongside the one about the right wing dissonance.

The whole issue is SM has made out people need to pick a side and fight that side. Life isn't like that.

You can have thoughts and feelings that are far more centric and believe each side has an argument and ultimately follow your own beliefs.

I don't agree with the way Palestinians are being killed daily but I can absolutely see why Israel are having this war and 100% agree they had a right to defend themselves after 7/10.

I also like the idea of a ceasefire but can see why there is a risk to that and why there are leaders concerned about the risk.

Nothing is black and white. Trying to make people lives or see things that way will make things worse and not better. It's only by acknowledging grey areas it's possible to reach compromise in life.

CurlewKate · 31/12/2023 08:23

@LefthandRight I'm finding it quite hard to address the points you make- and I would like to. I don't recognise your characterisation of "the left". There are hypocrites and bad people on both sides of the political fence. We just have to choose the side that most reflects our own views. For me that's the Left.

kikisparks · 31/12/2023 08:24

Most left wing people aren’t vegan but there’s not a lot of dissonance between being against killing animals but feeding an obligate carnivore who exists with animals- the alternative is to starve/ kill the cat, which is not ethical either. It’s uncomfortable but it’s not the same as humans who can thrive on a plant based diet. Most vegans are however in favour of the end of all pet breeding, and lab grown meat could ultimately feed rescue cats.

I see far more dissonance between those horrified at the idea of killing a healthy dog but happily eat the bodies of pigs who screamed as they were gassed.

scalt · 31/12/2023 08:25

Preaching about climate change, while travelling to conferences on this subject in a private jet.