To think there's too much left wing dissonance

[LefthandRight]

Feminist but support women hating philosophies and cultures
LGBT friendly except for the L part
Want to make minorities feel safe except for the Jewish community
Believe in the NHS but go private when needed
Think we should continue atoning for colonialism but mention Germany and WW2 and its like....move on already
Hate unearned privilege but it's handy I'll be left a property
Applaud multiculturalism but seek out monoculturalism in my holidays
Avoid palm oil as it kills trees but I must have a Christmas tree
Eat vegan because factory farming is disgusting....except the stuff that goes into my rescue cat food
Believe women shouldn't kneel to the standards and demands of the patriarchy, but I still remove my body hair, its my choice after all

I shouldn't have to explain because, if you'd done any research, even the flimsiest of internet searches, you would know you were wrong. But, here you go 👍
https://www.science.org/content/article/knowing-when-change-sex

Something like 5% of all animal species can change sex.

And the problem is, per se, reading those publications, it's only reading those publications 😉

You won't find what you don't look for, of course 🤦‍♂️

And Labour aren't "hiding" anything, rather trying, perhaps foolishly, to appeal to add many people as possible.

Absolutely this:

The near silence of the left on the treatment of Israeli women is almost deafening and certainly sickening.

But otherwise, this style of thinking cuts across left / right lines.

Well....the AIBU vote currently reflects the brexit vote...

Let’s be fair here, both the Left and Right are ideological constructs with the intention of maintaining division within society so that ‘leaders’ can control the majority. Do you honestly believe a country of over 60 million Individuals can be harmoniously ruled with only 2 parties to choose from?

I know for certain my beliefs and opinions make me a solid grey in such black and white situations. What petrifies me is how far people are willing to go to defend these constructs simply because society and their surroundings conditioned them to hate anyone who feels different.

I think it's because if the NHS was our only option and was as fucked as it is now, we would see much more action and turmoil across society that could create change.

I agree with this on an ideological level. On a practical, immediate level I question what I can actually do about there being no NHS dentist available for my children. I can write to my MP, or organise a protest maybe. I can certainly vote for whoever promises to properly fund the NHS in the next election (and I will!), but I’m sceptical that there are people so wedded to a political ideology that they’d let their children’s health suffer when they have the means to do otherwise.

Something like 5% of all animal species can change sex.

No mammalian species can, so why would this be relevant to a debate about humans?

@Walkingwashingmachine

I think the "left" if you can lump it all together these days as the mainstream media do, are more well-off graduates that live in cities and are fanatical about minority issues. Hence the current problem that many of us have as to which party to vote for as none of them represent the normal person minding their own business.

That's certainly true of a section of the left. There is still a rump of Labour voting people in what was called the "red wall", despite the disillusionment of recent years and the disaster that was Corbynism. Much more than Tories would have you believe. And the Tory press seeks to characterise all Labour voters as Islington-based champagne socialists which is not really accurate.

I share your sense of political homelessness as well. None of these parties really speaks for me.

My point is that there's always been a tendency that the Left has to adhere to a much stricter level of personal political "cleanliness" than the Right does. "Left wing" people are excoriated for, for example, sending their children to private school or drinking champagne or going on holiday in Tuscany (and other such tropes).

The Conservative movement is a much broader church but there are still some values which Conservatives are generally thought to espouse, one of which is "family values", yet Conservatives in practice hold up to these at roughly the same level as their more progressive counterparts. Tories seem no more to feel the need to keep their marriage vows or refrain from having children out of wedlock than Labour supporters do.

Yet you rarely hear people saying Tories are not authentic because they have had children out of wedlock or because they have been married multiple times.

I don't really have skin in this game but I do feel that this argument has always been rather one-sided and the Left, for all its faults, is subjected to a rather unfair set of judgements.

Is one of those species humans?

Do these species have a spectrum of sexes? Or just the usual two - female and male?

Don't bother answering actually. Everyone knows the answers. Even people who pretend they don't.

I think the issue is that the world is a nuanced and complicated place and you seem to think it boils down to these glib comparisons.

Take Christmas trees v palm oil - do you not understand that most palm oil is obtained by cutting down virgin rainforest, destroying animal habitats? And that that’s very different to sustainably and locally grown Christmas trees, which are a net positive for the environment?

Or your comments on veganism - a person who is vegan except for the food they buy for a rescue cat (i.e. an animal which was already alive and therefore requires to eat regardless of who is buying the food and which is an obligate carnivore) is still doing significantly more to benefit the environment than anyone who eats meat.

I don’t dispute at all that there are people claiming to be on the left wing holding abhorrent views, but there’s such a deliberate, idiotic naïveté to the way you’ve presented this apparent dichotomy. I think you just have a lot of work to do to broaden your understanding of world issues.

Don't bother answering actually. Everyone knows the answers. Even people who pretend they don't.

The thing that gets me is why? Why are people prepared to tie themselves up in ridiculous knots, or overthrow millennia of human knowledge to try and make sound reasonable? It makes no sense at all. And who is it ultimately benefitting?

I think your post is really interesting and balanced. I wonder if the left castigates both its own (JK Rowling, Gary Lineham) and the right more than the right does. I think part of real conservatism is tolerance for all other political beliefs. I am really interested in all sides of the spectrum as to how the economy and society should be run. I have no opinion on a person's morals if they vote differently to me. I would certainly never judge them and I don't hear Conservative voices on the mainstream media (such as there are any) often questioning the personal morals of left wing voters. But I do hear that from the left eg Never kissed a Tory, Tory scum, Tory stealing from the poor, cruelty etc. The class-based attacks on the countryside. It seems more personal than it should be.

Where the left have run into difficulties is the success of social media amplifying a lot of their extreme views disproportionately to the right (as the mainstream and most social media is run and dominated by the left-leaning). This means cancel culture (as you say, the left like 'cleanliness. ) and too much influence over politics regarding sometimes lunatic minority issues that makes the majority of people think they are fiddling while Rome burns. But hey..they will be in next election! So we will find out how that works out for us..

I hope that's Gary Lineker and not a love child of Desmond Lineham.

To be honest, the idea of the Conservatives being the party of family values is beyond parody.

Baffling isn't it?

An amazing number of animals can breath under water......and this has no bearing at all on human biology.

So sorry! Graham Linehan is who I meant!

Both right and left extremes are a prism for cruelty and indifference to human suffering. The hypocrisy is endless.

Good stable societies build togetherness and discuss what needs people have. I have not enjoyed living in Britain in the last few years because of the ideology and division encouraged by cheap politicians. It's been a bad time and whoever comes next must revert to central ideas, not fruitcake economics or fantasy feelings. The economy, schools and the NHS. Not the EU, Brexit, or genderwoo

Totally agree OP!

I have left wing friends who go on and on about homophobia/transphobia and misogyny and mock white working class men who they call "knuckle-draggers" but are completely silent over the far worse and far more widespread vicious homophobia, misogyny and racism in many non-white/non-Christian communities. They would never criticise them and would excuse it as part of their culture and we should respect and understand their beliefs.

The problem is that with the issues you highlighted here there's distinct "sides" but also it's a matter of interpretation.

I support the rights of all people to practice their chosen religion freely but only to the point where it respects others to do the same, I respect the right of Israel to exist but equally I respect the rights of the Palestinians to live freely and safely too - unfortunately they contradict each other, me criticising the (over re)actions of Israel doesn't affect my views on Jews being able to practice their religion, I have Jewish friends, I can separate the actions of nation states from the normal people too.

As for the gender critical issue, I can respect the rights of women to have safe spaces, separate facilities and sports issues AND the rights of trans people to choose to live their lives how they choose, the two don't have to be either or

Exactly. Tell me which animal species runs competitive sport, prisons or rape crisis centres.

I've yet to see an Olympic clownfish games being held. 🤣🤣🤣

I don't particularly see Lineker as left wing he's just speaking out on something he feels is wrong.
He is labelled left wing by the press who it suits to vilify him. He's just a decent man without agenda.

Sir John Major is also a man who stands against the Rwanda deportation policy. Yet never a truer Conservative has there been some would say?

Sir Alex Ferguson -happy birthday to him - has called himself a Socialist and donated to the Labour Party but never gets labelled a lefty

Just like the "right wing" really, bunch of fucking nut bags.

The Conservative movement is a much broader church but there are still some values which Conservatives are generally thought to espouse, one of which is "family values",

As movements I'm not sure they are a broader church as such. The populist right is pretty comparable to the hard-left and certainly not inclusive - their more moderate liberal MP's were suspended not that long ago, Grieve, Stewart, et al. There's a lot of small-c conservatives out there that follow a more flexible approach or one-nation philosophy, and they seem to deplore the more entrenched ideological right, the ones who prop up GB News. I think they do anyway, but I'm not on the right.

What the Conservative movement does seem to be a lot better at (generally) is their ability to unite pretty damn sharpish under a common threat - the left. The left and Labour just turn on themselves under a similar threat. And that has more to do with the "cleanliness" demands and cancel-culture of the far-left, which is more ideological, entrenched and unforgiving (and often pretty nasty) than it used to be, because of social media 'recruitment'.

Well that has made my post on Lineker a bit of a curve ball!