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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Top 500 runners at parkrun unfair on female runners?

215 replies

MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:12

Every parkrun event has a list of its top 500 fastest runners; however, our local event is gradually just becoming a list of men! There are only 25 women on the list, and the number is constantly decreasing. I made it on there for one week, (about 50 women at that point) before a man kicked me off. I'd now need to run over a minute faster than my PB in less than 21m30 to get back on the list.

YABU - all is fair, it's fastest 500 runners.
YANBU - this is not acknowledging women's achievements or physiological differences.

OP posts:
OggyBunsen · 30/12/2023 13:14

Fastest 250 men and 250 women (by birth) would surely be fairer.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 30/12/2023 13:15

I thought they did age and sex graded results to give you a performance rating? Perhaps it would be better doing the top 500 by this?

I guess one of the reasons it hasn't been raised before is that park run didn't start with more than 500 participants, for example my local one only has 200 participants so in smaller groups this is less of a problem

It definitely should be raised though

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 13:16

Only fair way to do it is to have male and female sections for fastest.

Due to genetics males are going to end up taking over the list given enough time.

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 30/12/2023 13:18

Some of the "female" Parkrun titles are held by male-bodied humans...

Neitheronethingnortheother · 30/12/2023 13:19

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

But they ready have a system to help them do that so I don't understand why they wouldn't use it? (except for disabilities, that's not taken into account)

This is off my local park run page

*Age Grading
All parkrun events use Age Grading to help parkrunners compare results.

Age Grading takes your time and uses the world record time for your sex and age group to produce a score (a percentage). This score allows you to compare your personal performance against other people's performances even though they might be a different age and a different sex to you - the higher the score the better the performance. The scores can also be compared across different race distances - to allow you to, for example, compare a 5km time against a marathon.*

So my local park run shows the fastest female runner, the fastest male runner and the fastest age graded runner

I don't see why this can't be used for the top 500 runners?

Rainbowshit · 30/12/2023 13:19

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

But they do already separate by age and sex so...

MandyMotherOfBrian · 30/12/2023 13:20

I’m not all that familiar with Parkrun, although I have noticed they claim that it is neither a sport or a competition - this may have always been their stance or may just suit their current agenda, I’m unsure. Have they ever listed it as fastest man and fastest woman, or is fastest 500 a new thing?

Neitheronethingnortheother · 30/12/2023 13:20

I totally understand by the way with the system I am describing above that men could still record themselves as women, but that still doesn't explain why they don't use the system they already have that acknowledges the sex (and age) based differences

Frabbits · 30/12/2023 13:22

If I look at local event's page, there are a whole heap of ways to view/compare times including fastest 500, sub 20-women, rankings by age grade etc, so they seem to pretty much cover all bases. Can't get worked up by this at all, to be honest. Just don't look at that particular list, if it really bothers you and use a different one.

Original poster
MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:23

NeverTrustAPoliceman · 30/12/2023 13:18

Some of the "female" Parkrun titles are held by male-bodied humans...

That's a whole different AIBU thread I feel! I have finished before thinking I was first lady after a sprint off at the finish. Turned out 'first lady' had finished 3 minutes ahead of us and ran as a male until 2020, and I was relegated to 'first vagina' over the line!

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:25

MandyMotherOfBrian · 30/12/2023 13:20

I’m not all that familiar with Parkrun, although I have noticed they claim that it is neither a sport or a competition - this may have always been their stance or may just suit their current agenda, I’m unsure. Have they ever listed it as fastest man and fastest woman, or is fastest 500 a new thing?

I've been doing parkrun for 5 years and it's always been top 500 runners.

OP posts:
Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/12/2023 13:26

MandyMotherOfBrian · 30/12/2023 13:20

I’m not all that familiar with Parkrun, although I have noticed they claim that it is neither a sport or a competition - this may have always been their stance or may just suit their current agenda, I’m unsure. Have they ever listed it as fastest man and fastest woman, or is fastest 500 a new thing?

That's always been their stance. They are happy that the worldwide average parkrun time is getting higher year on year. I do think they should ask people registering their sex, not gender, and use that for any lists of fastest participants.

Frabbits · 30/12/2023 13:26

MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:23

That's a whole different AIBU thread I feel! I have finished before thinking I was first lady after a sprint off at the finish. Turned out 'first lady' had finished 3 minutes ahead of us and ran as a male until 2020, and I was relegated to 'first vagina' over the line!

Show quote history

Obviously male-bodied people registering as females is complete bullshit, but sadly there probably isn't that much that can be done about it.

AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 13:27

If you look at the parkrun chat thread on MN, you'll see it's all about PBs, and the challenges like calendar and stopwatch bingo, pirates, tourist alphabet etc.

Parkrun is timed (that's its origin) but it's not about first finishers - look at what it promotes on its social media (recent examples: founder's reflections ahead of 20th birthday, NYD runs, favourite parkrun venue, total distance of all parkruns 2023 (halfway to the sun, apparently), merchandise, Feel Good Movement, parkrun and mental health. Nothing at all about times; they celebrate the participation, not the fastest finishers.

MagpiePi · 30/12/2023 13:27

Didn't you know that women only do parkrun for fun and aren't bothered about things like PB's or course records. Unless they are those 'brave and stunning and living their authentic lives' types of women, obviously. 🙄🙄🙄

Original poster
MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:28

Neitheronethingnortheother · 30/12/2023 13:15

I thought they did age and sex graded results to give you a performance rating? Perhaps it would be better doing the top 500 by this?

I guess one of the reasons it hasn't been raised before is that park run didn't start with more than 500 participants, for example my local one only has 200 participants so in smaller groups this is less of a problem

It definitely should be raised though

After 100 or so events though, you would definitely see a disproportionate number of males on that list, I would guess 450 men to 50 women.

OP posts:
Poznpanz · 30/12/2023 13:31

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Rainbowshit · 30/12/2023 13:35

AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 13:27

If you look at the parkrun chat thread on MN, you'll see it's all about PBs, and the challenges like calendar and stopwatch bingo, pirates, tourist alphabet etc.

Parkrun is timed (that's its origin) but it's not about first finishers - look at what it promotes on its social media (recent examples: founder's reflections ahead of 20th birthday, NYD runs, favourite parkrun venue, total distance of all parkruns 2023 (halfway to the sun, apparently), merchandise, Feel Good Movement, parkrun and mental health. Nothing at all about times; they celebrate the participation, not the fastest finishers.

So why bother having male and female records and a top 500?🙈🙈🙈

TidyDancer · 30/12/2023 13:36

Lauren Jeska is the....er....person who holds the women's record in a number of places. Worth a google if you're unfamiliar with the history of that person.

I have some sympathy for park run organisers as it isn't as if they are the IOC or British Athletics etc but men, whatever special identity they claim, should not be able to run as women - this is a very reasonable bottom line.

BubbleBubbleBubbleBubblePop · 30/12/2023 13:37

I genuinely thought parkrun was more about personal bests as opposed to comparing to the other runners? I was going to start couch to 5k in Jan and work up to a parkrun and from reading about it, that's the idea I got.

AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 13:38

MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:28

After 100 or so events though, you would definitely see a disproportionate number of males on that list, I would guess 450 men to 50 women.

Show quote history

That's true of any event if they published the top whatever-number of finishers by gun time.

You can, on the weekly results, change the display, so if you want to see it ordered by age grading %age, you can. Give it a try - it changes the list hugely

Rainbowshit · 30/12/2023 13:39

I find it astonishing that so many seem to have forgotten why women had to fight for separate female sports and records.

Why are so many happy for males to dominate?

BubbleBubbleBubbleBubblePop · 30/12/2023 13:39

TidyDancer · 30/12/2023 13:36

Lauren Jeska is the....er....person who holds the women's record in a number of places. Worth a google if you're unfamiliar with the history of that person.

I have some sympathy for park run organisers as it isn't as if they are the IOC or British Athletics etc but men, whatever special identity they claim, should not be able to run as women - this is a very reasonable bottom line.

Holy moly, I just googled 'Lauren'. Extremely disturbing.

Mrsttcno1 · 30/12/2023 13:42

BubbleBubbleBubbleBubblePop · 30/12/2023 13:37

I genuinely thought parkrun was more about personal bests as opposed to comparing to the other runners? I was going to start couch to 5k in Jan and work up to a parkrun and from reading about it, that's the idea I got.

This is absolutely right. I’ve been doing park run’s for years now and genuinely have never even looked to see if mine has a top 500 or anything. The only person I’m “competing” against there is me and my previous times. X