Top 500 runners at parkrun unfair on female runners?

[MrsPCR]

Every parkrun event has a list of its top 500 fastest runners; however, our local event is gradually just becoming a list of men! There are only 25 women on the list, and the number is constantly decreasing. I made it on there for one week, (about 50 women at that point) before a man kicked me off. I'd now need to run over a minute faster than my PB in less than 21m30 to get back on the list.

YABU - all is fair, it's fastest 500 runners.
YANBU - this is not acknowledging women's achievements or physiological differences.

Park Run is captured. It's not elite sports so women need to shove over for men when it comes to titles, accolades and acknowledgements.

I think most people realise it can’t be enforced completely, any more than you can enforce people giving their correct age, not cutting corners etc, but in my view that doesn’t mean their policy shouldn’t make it clear that people should register with their correct sex. I think the official position of saying register in whichever category you choose sends a very different message about how they see women’s sport, than it would do if it was made clear that the female category is for females (which by implication would suggest that males registering as female were going against the rules)

We have one that I know of in ours, the trans lady that beat me to first lady. I thought I was first lady until the result came through, showing that first lady was male until 2020, and beat me by 3 minutes! 2nd/3rd lady and I had a sprint finish for what we assumed to be first lady! The top 500 won't be significantly filled with women, as most men aren't fast enough, and very few are genuine trans; most won't be switching their gender just to gain first place and course records.

Well I know of one sportsman - Daley Thompson. You could probably count Tom Swabrick and Andrew Doyle, Graham Linehan too but they are not sportsmen - who else? Perhaps you can let me know who the others are?

Twattish comment.

I think there are two very separate issues:

1. People AMAB can self-identify as females and therefore remove any fair chance of competition for those AFAB, apparently in the interests of inclusively, putting the AFAB at a major disadvantage.

That is pleasing the trans women, who are allowed to also run gender-less, at the expense of all the women AFAB. But that would make for a very different AIBU thread. (The trans women opting for female gender clearly feel entitled to do so.)

1. This is the lists of 500 fastest runners at an event, which by their very nature, find themselves to be 95% AMAB, therefore, you have to work so much harder as an AFAB runner to receive the same accolade, which is unfair. Yes, it may technically be just for fun, but why should such a list then exist for the men and not the women?

I am well aware there's other ways of ranking, but sub-20/17 are basically your elite runners, as after 250 events, there are just 9 people on those lists for our event.

I am easily within the top 100 (probably closer to 50) female runners at our event, but I don't ever stand a chance of making it onto the fastest 500 list. If I were male/AMAB, I'd likely easily be on there.

Not at all. If you want to be fastest runner, run the fastest.

I am well aware there's other ways of ranking, but sub-20/17 are basically your elite runners, as after 250 events, there are just 9 people on those lists for our event.

It obviously makes a difference which parkrun you go to. Our 500th fastest runner is 18 mins which is why I was mentioning the other lists.

@MrsPCR You do know sex is observed at birth, not assigned, right? What's the point of writing "AFAB" /"AMAB"? We know what you mean by male/female, it's parkrun that don't.

i read on twitter (can't find it now) that this will now impact men, because the age grading gives weighting to the results (i have not looked deeply into this but i can imagine that from a statistical POV if there are a lot of late(r) transitioners from MtF this will have a significant effect) so men who would normally be in the top 500 are being pushed out.

And as is the way of things (thanks, patriarchy!) once it starts to affect the average chap, there will be pushback.

In which case men win everything as they are faster than women - I presume that's ok with you?
Sport is sex segregated for a very good reason - why are so many people pretending to forget why?

Park Run stats are available aggregated in a few different ways - allowing differentiation by gender, age, and (age and gender). And also raw / unaggregated. And apparently unaggregated is offensive ? It’s just the list of times. Not an attack on anyone, it’s simply raw data.

Parkrun need to scrap all of these tables and stats and go back to what it was set up..... People to get out and run and have fun doing it. It was set up to get non runners out doing it week after week, now it's this big competition every week in all but name.

He's just a very sad anti social man who apparently lacks critical thinking skills or the ability to put forward thoughtful, insightful posts

But hey, at least he can run fast 🙄

If only Beatrice Chepkoech had thought of that the world record holder for 5km wouldn't be almost 2 mins faster than her would he? Fucks sake.

unaggregated data works for me - and if Parkrun were truly "inclusive" to women, they would insist that, or age aggrated, is the only way to look at the data

Technically it was up to run for times when originally started.

Yes it's moved on from that but to deny it was time and table based is wrong.

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.
Well said. It's not competitive, and if you want to compete against others maybe a proper competitive run would be more suited to you.
I personally love the fact it's inclusive to all, regardless of ability, age, sex, gender,
You walk it, jog it, run it, walk round with pushchairs, whatever. It's great, love park run. When I can be arsed to get off the sofa that is 😁

Inclusive meaning that you think its ok for men to identify as women and get the fastest women's time every week, yes?

Not sure what part you missed but it's a non competitive race. If you want to compete, there's more suitable races for you, surely.
I love the fact anyone can run.
If you're adamant on comparing yourself to others instead of just trying to better your personal best/getting yourself fitter then that's a you thing and you're excluding yourself, surely.

I wouldn't even know what others people's times were as I'm not bothered what others are doing.
I'm not looking up their scores online.
When I go I go for ME, to get fitter.
I look to see what my time is. If it's any better than last week.

You haven't actually answered my question. Do you think that men identifying as women and getting the fastest WOMEN'S time is ok?

No. No it wasn't. It was set up as a time trial. Not to get non runners out. That's what it turned into. In the process, to the current state, they've lost sight of what fairness means.
"Parkrun began 14 years ago this week, with a simple idea: a free five-kilometre time-trial around Bushy Park, south west London. It was low-key, lo-fi, and unofficial. Thirteen people turned up. The results were typed up in a nearby Caffè Nero. No one bothered to ask the park for permission."
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2018/oct/01/parkrun-five-mlllion-runners

There. Are. No. Categories. When you're running/ walking. You all do it together.
I did answer your question. I run for ME. Like a lot of others at Park Run do. So what other times are are of no concern to my score, is it.
Whether that be a man, a trans man, a woman or a trans woman, a teenager, a pensioner, whoever.
If you want to compete against others, find a more suitable run such as a race, surely. Not a fun run.

If it's non competitive, why are results and times published? Why give age grading and celebrate records - based on times.
All of this distracts from the point that women are expected to prioritise men's feelings over fairness.