Page 7 | Top 500 runners at parkrun unfair on female runners?

MrsPCR · 2023-12-30T13:12:22+00:00

Every parkrun event has a list of its top 500 fastest runners; however, our local event is gradually just becoming a list of men! There are only 25 women on the list, and the number is constantly decreasing. I made it on there for one week, (about 50 women at that point) before a man kicked me off. I'd now need to run over a minute faster than my PB in less than 21m30 to get back on the list. YABU - all is fair, it's fastest 500 runners. YANBU - this is not acknowledging women's achievements or physiological differences.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 18:46

Anyway - women have the same rights to be competitive as men
Yes they do, but bit daft to get all competitive at a community event then whinge if others aren't taking it as a race against others like you are, whether you're male or female.
As for the aaaargh what's that all.about, why get so wound up if people don't agree with you?
Maybe go take out your rage in a competitive run.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 18:49

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 18:34

Who is ?

There is nothing to think critically about here, nor is there any insight to gain.

Of the finishers, regardless of category there will be a top 500. If you look at those in the top 500, the majority will be male because men on average run faster.

It’s just data. You can choose not to look at it, or you can look at permuted data which uses aggregation to filter the data by various categories.

If it upsets you to look at it, don’t look at it.

If you don’t care about your time and just run for you, don’t look at it.

If you do care about your time and want to compare with your peers then use the appropriate aggregation.

I genuinely fail to understand how anyone has a grievance here. It’s like “C” grade students being pissy because some people get “A” grades.

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Well that was somewhat more insightful than just blithely telling women "run faster"

I mean the points still gone whooshing over your head but at least you made a little effort

It's actually impressive how you manage to make the point and miss it at the same time

Original poster

MrsPCR · 31/12/2023 18:52

@YellowMeeple exactly this! And there have been a couple of occasions where I've come first because no one else has turned up! But yes, as I go around a sharp corner, I will scan the 250m section behind to how close the next lady is. And I will save myself to try and take the lady a little way in front, if I think I can. I won't care at all for most the men who overtake me; they're not my competition. But I do follow a few male makers and was incredibly pleased when I finished some 250m ahead of one who is normally always in my sight. I use many people as pacers, and love when they use me as an unofficial pacer too, with one guy thanking me for his PB on finishing. I love all of that informal competition, amongst people of a similar ability to myself, male or female.

But I still reserve the right to be annoyed that a middling average male can receive credit for being in the faster 500, despite the fact its male sub-17, female sub-20 for your real top runners, meaning women should automatically be 3 minutes slower, yet position 500 is out of reach for a better than average female runner. If men should be allowed the acknowledgement of their achievements and it's not 'just for fun' for them, the same should apply for women.

Either remove it completely or give men and women an equal chance of being on a list.

OP posts:

Restrelief · 31/12/2023 18:57

At a local level if it was 250 male and female I presume local runners would quickly realise if top 1ot 2 or whatever women were born male and ignore them. Then continue the very real fight for separation

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 21:35

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 18:49

Well that was somewhat more insightful than just blithely telling women "run faster"

I mean the points still gone whooshing over your head but at least you made a little effort

It's actually impressive how you manage to make the point and miss it at the same time

Show quote history

Well no. Because I wasn’t telling women to run faster. It’s anyone who wants to be in the top 500 - if you want to be in the fastest 500 then run fast enough to be in the top 500 regardless of your subcategories. That’s literally all there is to it. If gender bothers you then only look at that category. If age bothers you then look at that. This is such a bone issue.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 21:59

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 21:35

Well no. Because I wasn’t telling women to run faster. It’s anyone who wants to be in the top 500 - if you want to be in the fastest 500 then run fast enough to be in the top 500 regardless of your subcategories. That’s literally all there is to it. If gender bothers you then only look at that category. If age bothers you then look at that. This is such a bone issue.

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Still missing the point, so close and yet so far

enchantedsquirrelwood · 31/12/2023 22:01

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 18:46

Anyway - women have the same rights to be competitive as men
Yes they do, but bit daft to get all competitive at a community event then whinge if others aren't taking it as a race against others like you are, whether you're male or female.
As for the aaaargh what's that all.about, why get so wound up if people don't agree with you?
Maybe go take out your rage in a competitive run.

The AAAGH is because people keep saying it wasn't set up to the competitive when that was its raison d'etre!

It's not about not agreeing with me, it's about getting facts wrong, over and over.

Anyway, I see no reason for women to be treated worse than men.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 31/12/2023 22:03

I genuinely fail to understand how anyone has a grievance here. It’s like “C” grade students being pissy because some people get “A” grades

Blimey.

All I can assume is that you don't have daughters, nieces, female cousins. But you must have had a mother. Did/do you not like her?

enchantedsquirrelwood · 31/12/2023 22:04

If men should be allowed the acknowledgement of their achievements and it's not 'just for fun' for them, the same should apply for women.

Exactly.

I really can't see why this point is so difficult to grasp. It is a very sad indictment of our patriarchal society.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 22:21

But you must have had a mother. Did/do you not like her?
🙄

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 22:34

I have a mother, wife and daughter. And a son.

We can all run as fast as we like. Only the fastest 500 will be in the top 500 regardless of male, female, 13 years old or 50 years old.

This is NOT a patriarchy / sexism / inclusivity issue at all - the fastest 500 are simply the fastest 500.

Runkittyrun · 31/12/2023 22:41

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 18:34

Who is ?

There is nothing to think critically about here, nor is there any insight to gain.

Of the finishers, regardless of category there will be a top 500. If you look at those in the top 500, the majority will be male because men on average run faster.

It’s just data. You can choose not to look at it, or you can look at permuted data which uses aggregation to filter the data by various categories.

If it upsets you to look at it, don’t look at it.

If you don’t care about your time and just run for you, don’t look at it.

If you do care about your time and want to compare with your peers then use the appropriate aggregation.

I genuinely fail to understand how anyone has a grievance here. It’s like “C” grade students being pissy because some people get “A” grades.

Show quote history

It's more like some A grade students being upset that C grade students decided they actually got A grades and the examination board thought it was more important for the Cs to be happy so recorded them all as As.

Fizbosshoes · 31/12/2023 22:48

AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 13:27

If you look at the parkrun chat thread on MN, you'll see it's all about PBs, and the challenges like calendar and stopwatch bingo, pirates, tourist alphabet etc.

Parkrun is timed (that's its origin) but it's not about first finishers - look at what it promotes on its social media (recent examples: founder's reflections ahead of 20th birthday, NYD runs, favourite parkrun venue, total distance of all parkruns 2023 (halfway to the sun, apparently), merchandise, Feel Good Movement, parkrun and mental health. Nothing at all about times; they celebrate the participation, not the fastest finishers.

I'd say its both

It started as a time trial ie trying to run fast (faster than your previous time or faster than a competitor) Now it has become a lot more than that and more inclusive to runners, walkers, dogs, people pushing buggies etc - some of which wouldn't be allowed in an official race.
However there is still a competitive element - they publish the first finishers each week and last week celebrated the fastest ever female time

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 23:12

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 22:34

I have a mother, wife and daughter. And a son.

We can all run as fast as we like. Only the fastest 500 will be in the top 500 regardless of male, female, 13 years old or 50 years old.

This is NOT a patriarchy / sexism / inclusivity issue at all - the fastest 500 are simply the fastest 500.

Your poor daughter

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 23:18

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 23:12

Your poor daughter

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Why ?

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 23:29

Your poor daughter
Whoo, we're on the faux concern trying to emotional guilt trip for those who don't agree with you now.
Yawn
Oh and

ZoomerDinosaur · 31/12/2023 23:33

This is NOT a patriarchy / sexism / inclusivity issue at all - the fastest 500 are simply the fastest 500.

The fastest 500 list is obviously intended to be aspirational and a way for people who want to be competitive or to attain a goal, to work towards that.

Because of the way biology works, the top spot, and probably most of the top 500, will always go to a male runner. So the male runners get an idea of the fastest times and how much work they need to put in to place next time.

The competitive male runners, therefore, get a source of motivation that is not open to the competitive female runners.

The obvious solution is to split by sex. That way both male and female runners get equal motivation to climb the rankings, and if you want the overall fastest times you can just look at the men's.

Neitheronethingnortheother · 31/12/2023 23:37

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 31/12/2023 23:29

Your poor daughter
Whoo, we're on the faux concern trying to emotional guilt trip for those who don't agree with you now.
Yawn
Oh and

No you are mistaken. I feel genuine concern for any girl being raised by a man who refers to women as c grade students and doesn't understand equity

But I don't think you will even try to understand that

puncheur · 31/12/2023 23:55

OP, I’m confused as to which results page you’re talking about, can you link to an example please? I’m looking at the results and stats pages for our parkrun and I can’t see anything that looks like what you are describing.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 31/12/2023 23:59

There are both men AND women who don’t make the top 500. But just look at the filtered data if you are fearful of raw results.

DewHopper · 01/01/2024 00:50

Seriously you have outed yourself as a massive misogynist on this thread. Just stop.

NoMoreFalafelsForYou · 01/01/2024 01:27

People are entitled to different opinions to you, you know.
Just stop? 🙄

YellowMeeple · 01/01/2024 06:48

puncheur · 31/12/2023 23:55

OP, I’m confused as to which results page you’re talking about, can you link to an example please? I’m looking at the results and stats pages for our parkrun and I can’t see anything that looks like what you are describing.

If you go to the results menu on any specific parkrun site ‘fastest 500’ is one of the options.

my personal view is it’s not great, would be better if it was fastest 250 women and 250 men but it’s not as an important issue for me as the prioritisation of gender over sex.

SpringleDingle · 01/01/2024 07:04

Most of the park runs we do have very few people!! We did one with 30 recently so everyone would be in the top 500!!

Parkrun is free and run by volunteers, I find it best not to moan about a free thing that I am not volunteering to run!

RunningAndSinging · 01/01/2024 07:23

It is the top 500 ever on that course. There are a few similar lists if you click on the results arrow from the menus on the page for each event. If you click on your own category on any of the results for a particular event you can also see the ranking for everyone in that category who has ever done the course. I think a fastest 500 females list would be a good addition.