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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Top 500 runners at parkrun unfair on female runners?

215 replies

MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:12

Every parkrun event has a list of its top 500 fastest runners; however, our local event is gradually just becoming a list of men! There are only 25 women on the list, and the number is constantly decreasing. I made it on there for one week, (about 50 women at that point) before a man kicked me off. I'd now need to run over a minute faster than my PB in less than 21m30 to get back on the list.

YABU - all is fair, it's fastest 500 runners.
YANBU - this is not acknowledging women's achievements or physiological differences.

OP posts:
Brefugee · 30/12/2023 15:16

anothernamechangeagainsndagain · 30/12/2023 14:39

Ours breaks down by sex and age - yes of course you can just look for speed but you can filter if you need reference your age etc.

It's not a race, it's about personal achievement so it doesn't matter what others do

i think you'll find it's probably gender rather than sex

MirandaWest · 30/12/2023 15:20

Tbh I am never going to be anywhere near the top 500 in any parkrun I do. In my home one there’s 25 women in the top 500 and you need to be around 18:40 to be in it. There are also lists for sub 17 men and sub 20 women. Looking at the age records my only hope is to get into my 80s and manage to keep running

megletthesecond · 30/12/2023 15:25

The top 500 will always be almost always men.
You need to sort the list by male / female.

Although, obviously, as parkrun supports cheating men the female list will gradually get faster as men sneak their way in and biological women drop off the bottom. I bet parkrun finally sit up and do something when men notice it's going on and wonder why women are suddenly as fast as them Hmm.....

DewHopper · 30/12/2023 15:29

More likely that the male runners will think it's funny meglet - it doesn't affect them directly and time has shown that on the whole men won't stand up for women against this misogynist ideology. I would love to be wrong however.

GrumpyPanda · 30/12/2023 15:31

MirandaWest · 30/12/2023 15:20

Tbh I am never going to be anywhere near the top 500 in any parkrun I do. In my home one there’s 25 women in the top 500 and you need to be around 18:40 to be in it. There are also lists for sub 17 men and sub 20 women. Looking at the age records my only hope is to get into my 80s and manage to keep running

Why would you need to actually get into your 80s - just identify as such and tell the organizers.

lljkk · 30/12/2023 15:35

I thought parkrun wasn't competitive..... #sarcasm

KohlaParasaurus · 30/12/2023 15:38

DewHopper · 30/12/2023 15:29

More likely that the male runners will think it's funny meglet - it doesn't affect them directly and time has shown that on the whole men won't stand up for women against this misogynist ideology. I would love to be wrong however.

I think in principle this is true, but at ground level I can imagine a number of the men who are regular runners and/or core team members at my local runs seeing an injustice being committed towards women they know and support, and stepping up and having a quiet word with the ungentlemanly chap, and doubling down if they're publicly shamed in Pink News and The Guardian.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 30/12/2023 15:40

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

They do! Many PRs have all of those categories and some more - like the walking ones.

SamphiretheTervosaurReturneth · 30/12/2023 15:42

Mrsttcno1 · 30/12/2023 13:42

This is absolutely right. I’ve been doing park run’s for years now and genuinely have never even looked to see if mine has a top 500 or anything. The only person I’m “competing” against there is me and my previous times. X

Show quote history

Which is how it is publicised. Yet,.whether you look or not, they do publish rankings by age and by sex. Which they then traduce by saying that anyone can register as the sex they choose to.

If they didn't publish rankings, just times in alphabetical order perhaps, nobody would care.

VeronicaBeccabunga · 30/12/2023 15:53

I am not a runner but Mr Beccabunga is a keen Park Run participant and regularly serves as Run Director for our local event.
I used to happily stand in for marshals or time-keepers if he was short of volunteers.
It has become clear to me that Park Run is not fair for women and so I no longer help with it at all.
It is competitive for men, when it suits them, through time rankings lists and so on, women are expected to treat is as 'non-competitive' and 'fun'.
Mr B mansplained to me that it is a fun community event meant to encourage fitness and participation, but will happily boast about getting a PB.
*sighs, rolls eyes

Runkittyrun · 30/12/2023 15:56

They also promote course and world records so yes they do celebrate times as well.

Runkittyrun · 30/12/2023 15:59

The original event was set up as a timed run. Not a "let's all go for a jog in a green space". Speed and time were essential elements.

YellowMeeple · 30/12/2023 16:09

In my view the beauty of parkrun is that it is both a community health event and a hardcore run for competitive runners and the occasional elite runner. I can run fast (ish) on my day, but other days I run/walk with my kids. All of my finishes are important to me, I would hate new runners to be put off by the fact that some at the front are competing- unless you are a 20 year old bloke there will always be someone faster and in all likelihood there will be someone slower too. I have never seen faster runners, judging the slower ones, we’re all where we are.

That said some days I am feeling competitive and those days my place in the female race does matter to me. In my view the policy should be that people register as sex, not gender, I accept I will slip down the female rankings as I age, but being pushed down by men makes me angry. Like everything in parkrun, it would be impossible to police and that’s fine, we know others may cut corners etc- nobody thinks this is the Olympics, but the stated policy is just unfair.

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 16:11

Runkittyrun · 30/12/2023 15:59

The original event was set up as a timed run. Not a "let's all go for a jog in a green space". Speed and time were essential elements.

Yes. I do get fed up with the rewriting of history by people who've only been doing parkruns for 5 minutes.

PPTorPDF · 30/12/2023 16:53

Runkittyrun · 30/12/2023 15:59

The original event was set up as a timed run. Not a "let's all go for a jog in a green space". Speed and time were essential elements.

Exactly! Somebody upthread said it's been hijacked by competitive runners.... its actually the other way round.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/12/2023 17:04

YellowMeeple · 30/12/2023 16:09

In my view the beauty of parkrun is that it is both a community health event and a hardcore run for competitive runners and the occasional elite runner. I can run fast (ish) on my day, but other days I run/walk with my kids. All of my finishes are important to me, I would hate new runners to be put off by the fact that some at the front are competing- unless you are a 20 year old bloke there will always be someone faster and in all likelihood there will be someone slower too. I have never seen faster runners, judging the slower ones, we’re all where we are.

That said some days I am feeling competitive and those days my place in the female race does matter to me. In my view the policy should be that people register as sex, not gender, I accept I will slip down the female rankings as I age, but being pushed down by men makes me angry. Like everything in parkrun, it would be impossible to police and that’s fine, we know others may cut corners etc- nobody thinks this is the Olympics, but the stated policy is just unfair.

That's exactly how I feel about it. I'm extremely slow but parkrun has been a really good motivator for me to do something active once a week. I'm very loyal to parkrun and always will be, but I do think it's a pity they've swallowed the gender nonsense, and I hope they eventually grasp how very unfair it is to female participants. A female identifying as a man or boy will almost never end up with a male record, but a male identifying as a woman or girl stands an excellent chance with a time that wouldn't be considered all that good for a man or boy of the relevant age. I've just checked the top 500 at my local parkrun and 10 - yes, a whole ten - of the runners on the list are female. Sounds about right. We have a tough course and it's rare for a woman to be in the top twenty.

That said, I hope nobody's put off trying parkrun by reading this. If you are new to running or walking and just trying to get fit, it can be a great help. I have found parkrunners incredibly inclusive and encouraging.

lljkk · 30/12/2023 17:20

Is there a Top 500 list for volunteers? Most volunteering sessions in last 12 months? I'd support that.

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 17:45

DewHopper · 30/12/2023 15:29

More likely that the male runners will think it's funny meglet - it doesn't affect them directly and time has shown that on the whole men won't stand up for women against this misogynist ideology. I would love to be wrong however.

Utter crap, most blokes think the trans stuff is bullshit.

The problem is until results come out when registering for park run you can identify as a woman even if you aren't.

A lot of blokes are against men competing in women's sports, do you know who is shouting them down when they complain about it, it's other women.

Brefugee · 30/12/2023 17:52

VeronicaBeccabunga · 30/12/2023 15:53

I am not a runner but Mr Beccabunga is a keen Park Run participant and regularly serves as Run Director for our local event.
I used to happily stand in for marshals or time-keepers if he was short of volunteers.
It has become clear to me that Park Run is not fair for women and so I no longer help with it at all.
It is competitive for men, when it suits them, through time rankings lists and so on, women are expected to treat is as 'non-competitive' and 'fun'.
Mr B mansplained to me that it is a fun community event meant to encourage fitness and participation, but will happily boast about getting a PB.
*sighs, rolls eyes

when i used to run a lot - there are a lot of 10k runs here in Germany which are mass participation events, medal or something to everyone who crosses the finish line etc, and i have a fine collection of the medals from my youth (when my knees worked)

There were prizes for the first 3 men, the first 3 women (back then women were women) and the largest team to enter - they got a barrel of beer and wherever i was stationed in Germany, we turned up with 20-25 people each week and often went back to the clubhouse to enjoy the fruits of our labours.

these were all volunteer run, hosted by various running clubs, and were jolly good fun. the more sophisticated ones could tell you your finish time, otherwise you just had to note it yourself. So most people would aim to a) finish and b) get a pb. This is what Parkrun could be if it wasn't now run by a bunch of wankers.

But Parkrun or not, most runners will look to get a pb every week, and with modern technology places like parkruns are the best placeto get an "official" one.

Gosh i miss all that.

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 18:13

The thing is with parkwalk introduction etc it really isn't about times anymore it's all so inclusive.

It has actually turned a lot of parkrunners off, but many of us who complained got shouted down so it is what it is.

haveacat · 30/12/2023 18:17

A woman came first at my local parkrun today. 🥳

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 18:33

A lot of blokes are against men competing in women's sports, do you know who is shouting them down when they complain about it, it's other women

I am in the parkrun discussion group on Facebook and someone has linked to an article in the Guardian about ensuring the female category is protected at grass roots level and commenting about what this means for parkrun.

I think every comment is from a man, and most comments are saying it is transphobic to exclude male bodied people from the female category at parkrun. One says it is too nuanced to discuss on social media.

No woman has dared express an opinion either way. Me included.

YellowMeeple · 30/12/2023 18:38

haveacat · 30/12/2023 18:17

A woman came first at my local parkrun today. 🥳

That is brilliant when it happens, well done that lady. A bit of me always worries when I see things like that though that it will be used as a reason why women don’t need their own categories…

haveacat · 30/12/2023 18:44

I agree with the idea of separate lists for men/woman. The female who ‘won’ parkrun today was a young and talented athlete (aged 17). Quite a few of the younger men were missing today which may have been a factor in her coming first.

Original poster
MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 18:44

haveacat · 30/12/2023 18:17

A woman came first at my local parkrun today. 🥳

Amazing! Love it when that happens. Unfortunately though, if you look at the event history, the first male will still be listed above her as it is always male first finisher first. 🙈 Another little glitch, which doesn't acknowledge a woman's achievements.

I'm sure there would me much more uproar if it were the other way round and men were negatively affected.

OP posts: