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Original poster

Top 500 runners at parkrun unfair on female runners?

215 replies

MrsPCR · 30/12/2023 13:12

Every parkrun event has a list of its top 500 fastest runners; however, our local event is gradually just becoming a list of men! There are only 25 women on the list, and the number is constantly decreasing. I made it on there for one week, (about 50 women at that point) before a man kicked me off. I'd now need to run over a minute faster than my PB in less than 21m30 to get back on the list.

YABU - all is fair, it's fastest 500 runners.
YANBU - this is not acknowledging women's achievements or physiological differences.

OP posts:
AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 18:55

I think parkrun results should be excluded from things like RunBritain rankings - because they are not particularly accurate, and no participant information is verified. There's even been an article in Runners World about how easy it to "cheat" (short cuts, wrong number of laps, impersonation etc)

It would make it clearer that parkrun is sui generis

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 19:01

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 18:33

A lot of blokes are against men competing in women's sports, do you know who is shouting them down when they complain about it, it's other women

I am in the parkrun discussion group on Facebook and someone has linked to an article in the Guardian about ensuring the female category is protected at grass roots level and commenting about what this means for parkrun.

I think every comment is from a man, and most comments are saying it is transphobic to exclude male bodied people from the female category at parkrun. One says it is too nuanced to discuss on social media.

No woman has dared express an opinion either way. Me included.

You must move In different circles to me as it's the men shouting down trans competors, who don't give a fuck about being transphobic,

But that's the north.

Id you ain't expressing a opinion why the fuck not

Patchworksack · 30/12/2023 19:08

I have to admit when I saw the press about the female record being beaten recently my first thought was to look at the photo and check the runner was actually an adult human female and not a man ( relief that it was). I’m a park plodder and unlikely ever to feature in the top 500 of anything unless I self identify as 100 yrs old to improve my age grade. I think the official policy should be you register as your biological sex whilst accepting Parkrun have no way of policing when you just register yourself online.

FrippEnos · 30/12/2023 19:08

AuntieStella · 30/12/2023 13:27

If you look at the parkrun chat thread on MN, you'll see it's all about PBs, and the challenges like calendar and stopwatch bingo, pirates, tourist alphabet etc.

Parkrun is timed (that's its origin) but it's not about first finishers - look at what it promotes on its social media (recent examples: founder's reflections ahead of 20th birthday, NYD runs, favourite parkrun venue, total distance of all parkruns 2023 (halfway to the sun, apparently), merchandise, Feel Good Movement, parkrun and mental health. Nothing at all about times; they celebrate the participation, not the fastest finishers.

If that were truly the case they wouldn't have records or titles.

FrippEnos · 30/12/2023 19:40

MrsPCR

I'm sure there would me much more uproar if it were the other way round and men were negatively affected.

I agree that this might be the case but I am not convinced as
1/ a transman would have to be an exceptional Athlete to rank highly in men's sports.
2/ Men's sports categories are generally open categories which either gender can enter.

It is very different in female sports where a mediocre man can beat the entire field.

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 30/12/2023 19:45

Run faster then 🤷🏻‍♂️

Neitheronethingnortheother · 30/12/2023 19:46

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 30/12/2023 19:45

Run faster then 🤷🏻‍♂️

ODFOD

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 30/12/2023 19:59

brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 30/12/2023 19:45

Run faster then 🤷🏻‍♂️

Oh look, a numpty.

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 20:28

I still love the fact that most think natural men
Are supportive of trans they aren't it's anything but , but keep supporting it's men who your enemies when it isn't.

Wrapunzel · 30/12/2023 20:29

DH is a proper runner, last time I checked he was top 2000 in the country. Only 23 women ranked higher than him, so about 1-2% 😕
I've given up parkrun, I used to be quite good and broke 24.30 for V40 so was sometimes first in my age/sex category depending on the size of the field but I'm not there to validate any men in the female category. They can get to fuck

Soontobe60 · 30/12/2023 20:33

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

Park run is definitely not just a ‘jog round the park’ for many of the participants.
Don't worry op, the stats will soon show more women in the top 500 as Parkrun has determined that men who self ID as women will have their results recorded in the female category.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/29/parkrun-must-protect-women-from-trans-rivals-or-risk-funds/

Parkrun must protect women from trans rivals or lose taxpayer funding, Olympian-backed report urges

Research finds female records at three events are held by biological men as sporting greats express fears for grassroots competitors

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/12/29/parkrun-must-protect-women-from-trans-rivals-or-risk-funds/

daisychain01 · 30/12/2023 20:45

ManateeFair · 30/12/2023 13:16

Parkrun isn’t really meant to be a ‘race’ and they just publish times for fun. If they separate the times by sex then, realistically, they’d also have to separate them by age categories as well, and also by disability. If you want that kind of competition, do proper competitive races rather than a communal jog round a park.

They shouldn't even be calling the List "Top 500 Runners" then, it completely contradicts the ethos of a non-competitive jog round the park. Anything with "Top" in it means it's ordered by ability and one stop short of turning it into a race!

DobbyRuth · 30/12/2023 20:47

Of course it’s unfair. 475 men are celebrated - that’s the 475th best male runner, named and celebrated. Only 25 women get the same accolade. It takes the piss.

Lisbeth50 · 30/12/2023 21:07

As others have said, parkrun started as a time trial so you could track your progress by running the same course on the same day at the same time each week. You really aren't in competition with anyone except yourself. There are no prizes. The only rewards are t-shirts for how many runs/volunteer stints you've done and they are no longer free.

Yes, you can see who ran fastest etc but the list of fastest 500 runners is no more obvious than the list of top 1000 age grade performances, sub 17 men, sub 20 women & various other ways of measuring performance.

I absolutely agree that men should not be identifying as women and that this negatively affects women. Nowadays, I look at my age grade score rather than my time and would be really annoyed if my grading was affected by a man running in my category.

We have had some very fast times by men at our parkrun and they have been amazing to see and be part of the same event as. There have also been some very fast women who are always cheered on by other competitors, male and female alike. For the most part, I find running, and parkrun, a very inclusive sport.

Brefugee · 30/12/2023 21:32

Lovely @Lisbeth50 but you have completely ignored what we are talkng about which is that since a male runner can simply say they are female, and WHAM! instead of being 50th bloke they are 1st woman.

Very inclusive. Slow. Handclap

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 21:40

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 19:01

You must move In different circles to me as it's the men shouting down trans competors, who don't give a fuck about being transphobic,

But that's the north.

Id you ain't expressing a opinion why the fuck not

Show quote history

The parkrun discussion group has people from all over the country.

As for why I don't express an opinion in public? Because I'd like to keep my job!

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 21:41

Brefugee · 30/12/2023 21:32

Lovely @Lisbeth50 but you have completely ignored what we are talkng about which is that since a male runner can simply say they are female, and WHAM! instead of being 50th bloke they are 1st woman.

Very inclusive. Slow. Handclap

I don't think she did ignore it, she said "I absolutely agree that men should not be identifying as women and that this negatively affects women. Nowadays, I look at my age grade score rather than my time and would be really annoyed if my grading was affected by a man running in my category."

Lisbeth50 · 30/12/2023 21:43

Brefugee · 30/12/2023 21:32

Lovely @Lisbeth50 but you have completely ignored what we are talkng about which is that since a male runner can simply say they are female, and WHAM! instead of being 50th bloke they are 1st woman.

Very inclusive. Slow. Handclap

I have not ignored that at all. I've said I completely agree!

The OP was presented as if there's a list of the top 500 runners and nothing else whilst, in reality, there are numerous different lists, none of which are given priority and you have to search to find them.

Tattletwat · 30/12/2023 21:44

Fair enough but if you don't stand up then, it's on you, but I got shouted down when it became park fucking walk.

People need to stop thinking as men as the enemy most men are transphobic as hell, if others want to join most are against it.

MyEyesMyThighs · 30/12/2023 21:47

I know it's not the point but I'm a bit gobsmacked at more than 500 runners at all. I have three local to me and the busiest is about 200, the others about 70-80 runners.

MintJulia · 30/12/2023 21:50

Our course fastest runner is a woman. She's held that slot for 5 years, she's an England team runner.

No-one says it isn't fair, that she's held the slot for too long and it's not giving the men a chance.

Redcrayons · 30/12/2023 22:15

MyEyesMyThighs · 30/12/2023 21:47

I know it's not the point but I'm a bit gobsmacked at more than 500 runners at all. I have three local to me and the busiest is about 200, the others about 70-80 runners.

It’s the Top 500 times of all time. Not just that week. I imagine most park runs dont get that many every week.

i can’t see the point of the Top 500 list. The slowest time on my local one is 19 mins which would put you in the top 10 most weeks, so excludes pretty much everyone who runs it.

Even if they change the rules on self ID, how could they ever enforce it?

Brefugee · 30/12/2023 22:15

enchantedsquirrelwood · 30/12/2023 21:41

I don't think she did ignore it, she said "I absolutely agree that men should not be identifying as women and that this negatively affects women. Nowadays, I look at my age grade score rather than my time and would be really annoyed if my grading was affected by a man running in my category."

Show quote history

and then wittered on about how lovely and inclusive it was.

MrsJamin · 30/12/2023 22:15

MyEyesMyThighs · 30/12/2023 21:47

I know it's not the point but I'm a bit gobsmacked at more than 500 runners at all. I have three local to me and the busiest is about 200, the others about 70-80 runners.

Surely it's top 500 since the parkrun started not every week?

I've not participated or volunteered for parkrun since they promoted men lying on the parkrun form saying they're women. Their pandering to men's feelings and insistence that they're not competitive when they publish competitive results is just deceitful and damaging to women's grassroots sport. Please can everyone contact parkrun and tell them directly what you think of their stance? They don't seem to get it.

MrsJamin · 30/12/2023 22:17

... And don't get me started on why they have an age/GENDER grading still, as if running with makeup or long hair, or adherence to stereotypes affects your timing.😡