Ex Wife Boundaries

[2ChildDad]

My ex wife and I share 50/50 custody of our children. I tend to have them slightly more than that over Christmas and half terms due to her work schedules (I am not complaining about that- any time that I spend with my kids in a gift). The kids spent Christmas with me and returned to her on Boxing Day.
She has started a relationship with another man (the kids were somewhat resistant to this, but I have been as supportive as I can be-he has even thanked me for this).
My boundary on this are that if the kids are with me, I don’t contact her unless absolutely necessary. She has her life to lead.
Yesterday, I received a call saying ‘we are coming over to your house now as he (my son) wants his other pair of trainers’.
I was actually having lunch with a lady that I have begun dating and said that ‘now is not convenient as I have company. Tomorrow will be fine’.
She slammed the phone down and then sent a text saying ‘Don’t bother I am going to buy some new ones’.
I think she is getting too aggressive here and not respecting boundaries. Or AIBU?

She probably got wind of the fact that you were seeing someone, and made up the trainer issue so that she could come over and have a nosy.

Despite many of the posts on this thread I’m glad to see most people voting think YANBU.

@2ChildDad as a separated Mum I think you did nothing wrong on the face of it. If there is a back story (Like you were meant to send the trainers with him and you forgot, and it's not the first time) I can understand your ex's frustration. My ex is forever doing stuff like that. School shoes, sports kit, coats, water bottles. I don't understand why it is so hard to remember what your own kids need.

Yes, and the outcome would have been the same, i.e. no trainers until later. 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think you're getting threads mixed up. You don't seem to be reading any of OPs posts at all.

@Olive19741205 I've since updated on subsequent posts.

@Workworkandmoreworknow
Ok so in that case perhaps (and we're inferring a lot here) "He's desperate to have his trainers, he's been waring me down this morning and I can't take it anymore." And then dad could have said "Ah ok, yes come and get them but it's a bit tricky right now, I'm a bit busy with something here but if it's ok with you I will just bring them to the front door?" Seems like to communication was not the best on either side?

I suppose really point was that if it was so desperately urgent surely all mum would be concerned about was finding a way to facilitate getting hold of them, whether it be handing them over at the door or whatever?

And seems very weird/drastic to just buy a whole new pair of trainers because there might (doesn't even have to be!!) be a slight delay in getting said trainers back? Not a very balanced or stable response to a slightly annoying/inconvenient situation?!! Surely the child is also old enough at pre teen to explain that she's asked dad and he's said yes but I'm just trying to sort out when we can go and get them?

I don't doubt there is a backstory where mum is doing her best/ dad also is not a saint but I really can't see how it excuses the entitled tone of impatience and downright rudeness from his fellow co-parent here?

@CandyLeBonBon there is some significant middle ground between rigidly adhering to an arbitrary division of time and ‘utter chaos’

That the ex wife has a key and can walk in at any time to get things for the children

No, of course that would be too much, but if OP is in the house he should allow EW to pick belongings up for the kids (until the kids are able to do this themselves). Would have taken 30 secs to meet her at door. This is a bare minimum ask of a parent to compensate for requiring a child to live between two homes.

What about the fact that she seems to be using this to control the OP?

That’s the misogynistic spin that has been read into this scenario. I Dont see any evidence of that from the facts OP presented.

its not that unommon for adults to split their time across two places (for work or living part time with partner)

work is an entirely different scenario . Adults who live between two homes (say their first home and their partner’s home) very often find the issue of stuff being different places challenging. This would be even more the case if the division of time were as split as 50/50 and if they weren’t able to go get / pick up stuff as and when. If it’s stressful for adults , that stress is magnified many times for a small child who doesn’t have the same maturity / self regulation / independence / perspective that an adult has.

and it's not too distressing and shouldn't be overstated for children either, most of whom cope well with shared residence arrangements

Lots of children find shared parenting arrangements stressful. One of the main triggers/ stressors is the issue of belongings. Shared parenting arrangements can work really well when there is : 1) good communication and cooperation between the two parents, 2) they live close and 3) children are able to move relatively freely between homes.

Yes, but if OP were out, the “outcome” (shit as it may be) couldn’t easily have be avoided. As it was , he was in, so he could quite easily have handed over the shoes . 🤷🏼‍♀️

This is nonsense. My DD went to a sleepover with my sister. My sister rang saying DD forgot her top that she wanted to wear the next day. I was going for a bath and wanted to chill out so I told my sister to tell her to just leave it, she had other clothes with her, wear something else. My child, her home. She was fine.

If you can’t understand the difference between a child living through a 50/50 shared parenting arrangement (after relationship breakdown), and your daughter having a sleep over at her aunt’s house, you are very obtuse.

He should put his new lady first. Children need to fit in. Will the children be with him every day when he is old, or will his romantic attraction. It will be his romantic attraction, not his children who will have their own lives. It does children no service if they are allowed to dictate what their parents do and are taught the whole world revolves around what they want - finding out it does not then becomes an existential shock.

@Grammarnut thrash the boy soundly for his idle nature and be done with it, eh?

He should put his new lady first. Children need to fit in. Will the children be with him every day when he is old, or will his romantic attraction

😮😮🤭🫣. Well now that is a fresh take 😂

No, of course that would be too much, but if OP is in the house he should allow EW to pick belongings up for the kids (until the kids are able to do this themselves). Would have taken 30 secs to meet her at door. This is a bare minimum ask of a parent to compensate for requiring a child to live between two homes.

He offered to put the trainers on the doorstep. Why does she need any more than this when it's all about the belongings? Sometimes it really isn't appropriate for people to drop round at short notice, yes, including your own children. There is a very good reason for keeping the kids out of the OP's dating life until the relationship is more established. And saying 'well no dates' is really unreasonable.

That’s the misogynistic spin that has been read into this scenario. I Dont see any evidence of that from the facts OP presented.

He said that the ex was gaslighting to him during the relationship and since splitting, kept finding reasons to pop round. You don't seem to appreciate that it can be incredibly stressful for someone to have to deal with intrusive behaviour for an ex and that stress can affect the children too.

work is an entirely different scenario . Adults who live between two homes (say their first home and their partner’s home) very often find the issue of stuff being different places challenging. This would be even more the case if the division of time were as split as 50/50 and if they weren’t able to go get / pick up stuff as and when. If it’s stressful for adults , that stress is magnified many times for a small child who doesn’t have the same maturity / self regulation / independence / perspective that an adult has.

Okay but it is an inevitability and the alternative is that they live with only one parent so that they don't get stressed about their belongings and will suffer in other ways as a result. So given that the OP has the kids slightly more than 50/50 here, should the kids not spend any time living with their mum? Or is it only women who should have sole residence do you think?

Lots of children find shared parenting arrangements stressful. One of the main triggers/ stressors is the issue of belongings. Shared parenting arrangements can work really well when there is : 1) good communication and cooperation between the two parents, 2) they live close and 3) children are able to move relatively freely between homes.

Actually, routine is good for kids so the moving freely between two homes isn't necessarily good. They want certainty. Sometimes the parents are not able to communicate effectively but that doesn't mean that splitting time between them is a bad thing.

Yes. And 50/50 attempts to go just that!

He's not putting his 'new lady' first ffs. He's actually putting his kid first because he doesn't want the ex and child to drop round when he has a date there and risk confusing the child (like the mum clearly did). How is that anything other than being a responsible parent? Unless the answer is that he shouldn't have any dates ever until his child is 30 or something.

Grammar but is a proponent of some very outdated parenting techniques based on some of her previous comments on other threads!

I don't doubt there is a backstory where mum is doing her best/ dad also is not a saint but I really can't see how it excuses the entitled tone of impatience and downright rudeness from his fellow co-parent here?

If it is the 15th time in 15 handovers that trainers have been forgotten, being impatient and downright rude has context, perhaps?

I've read most of the thread and the OP's updates. There have been some ridiculously OTT responses, not to mention an incredible overreaction from the ex-wife herself, who seemingly went out of her way to create a scene from a mere triviality. And a triviality it is; failure to capitulate instantly to her demands is hardly tantamount to child neglect.

@2ChildDad - your sense of discomfiture is the sound of your boundaries being being tested and largely found wanting, as your updates also indicate that this behaviour is a pattern and not a one-off. Your inclination that maintaining firm, strong boundaries are the answer to your dilemma is right. Your response to this situation gives her a good message: that anything less than an emergency doesn't necessitate her encroaching into your space. You should now hold to this and keep her at arm's length until that message begins to sink in. There will invariably be pushback, as this always happens when a pattern of control and capitulation is broken.

I'd also be inclined to put her on a strict 'information diet'. Unless your life events directly relate in some way to the children, any other personal information is none of her business. Who and when you are dating has precisely nothing to do with her.

You've done nothing wrong. Hope you had a pleasant lunch!

But true. I am divorced and my DH is my second. My children were not hostile to him, and he had nothing to do with the break-up of my first marriage. DH was very careful (was a trained youth worker, as it happens) and understood they might be hostile. My ex-DH was hostile, and certainly told our DCs his version of what had happened in such a way that they were unable to listen to me, even if I wanted to tell them (bad idea). I knew that they were growing up (15 and 12 when we divorced) and would leave the nest at some point. Thus I put effort into the relationship I knew would be sustaining me now, when, indeed my children are living their own lives. Had I put them first maybe they would visit more often, but maybe not (visits seem evenly distributed), but my DH is here all the time. What is more his DS and his DCs are more than welcoming to me, and my DCs are included as family. Both like my DH.
Thought this view would be not entirely popular, but children cannot come first most of the time. If they were to do so we would none of us take a better job in another town, go on holidays that are not totally child-centred or move to a better house that happens to be away from the DC's friends or meant changing school. All of which would mean our family life would suffer.

Where have you got 15 times in 15 handovers from? Or is that something else I've missed? 😂

@Workworkandmoreworknow Perhaps, but there isn't really enough information to infer that is there?

@2ChildDad How are you at helping the kids remember their stuff?

He offered to put the trainers on the doorstep

A claim which is in complete contradiction to OP’s first post. Sounds like- if that drip feed is actually true- op initially said he was occupied and “tomorrow would be fine” (rude for reasons pp’s have already pointed out) at which point EW slammed down phone (as per OP). Maybe he then followed up with he could leave them outside, but EW already (understandably imv) v upset, replied “don’t bother I’ll buy some new”.
Either way it hardly seems like a big deal for OP to hand over shoes at door and in no way entails child getting “involved in his dating life”. Not buying that crap for a second. No different to a delivery of a parcel interrupting his lunch for 30 seconds.

Okay but it is an inevitability and the alternative is that they live with only one parent so that they don't get stressed about their belongings and will suffer in other ways as a result. So given that the OP has the kids slightly more than 50/50 here, should the kids not spend any time living with their mum? Or is it only women who should have sole residence do you think?

what works best depends on the family and the kid. But if you are doing shared parenting, one thing you need to be flexible about is belongings. That’s all. Simple as that. This flexibility would normally be more onerous , as it might require picking up/ delivering things to other parent’s house at inconvenient times. Handing over something at one’s own door really is nothing!!

Actually, routine is good for kids so the moving freely between two homes isn't necessarily good. They want certainty. Sometimes the parents are not able to communicate effectively but that doesn't mean that splitting time between them is a bad thing.

by moving freely between two houses I didn’t mean to imply that children shouldn’t have a routine! 🤦🏼‍♀️ Just there shouldn’t be a sense of some strict apartheid between houses such that a child is banished from one home or the other at all times.