Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

@CandyLeBonBon

Nothing wrong with a bit of bacchanalian debauchery to brighten up a dismal time of year, so I'm sure your po-faced opinion as to whether or not we're 'doing Christmas right' will make not one jot of difference!

If ever there was a post that could be less persuasive of joining Christianity, I'd like to see it! You've even managed to sneer at atheists who aren't in-believing correctly!!

+++

So imagine as a non Muslim I went along to an Eid al Fitr event because it would brighten up my day, it's free food and I also really like Vimto (actually I really do like Vimto). I then start to question whether Eid should really just be a Muslim celebration, its origins and criticise the Muslim religiousness and helping out those less fortunate of Eid. When I get pulled up for this I then respond that what right do Muslims have to tell me that "I'm not doing Eid right" and that they have dissuaded me from becoming a Muslim.

My personal aspirations stretch a little further than the bacchanalian debauchery of getting pissed and pushing up my BMI at Christmas.

You are right though that my personal opinion that Christmas has both a Christian religious element and a helping out those less fortunate element will not make a jot of difference to the majority.

I really couldn't care less whether my views dissuade you from Christianity or Islam or becoming a Jedi Knight For me it is a personal thing about trying to be the better person than others, which reassuringly from your post doesn't seem to be a particularly high hurdle.

Good for you @1dayatatime don't strain your neck looking down at me from your high horse though - A&E have enough to deal with! 😂

Jesus wept.

Yes, it's a partially a Christian festival but it's been a pagan festival for much longer, simply something Christianity chose to co-opt. Everyone saying the OP was rude for leaving the room are deliberately missing the fact she left ahead few mins before without making any fuss: normally the advice on here is to quietly retreat and not make a scene, yet now it seems that the only acceptable way to deal with excessive displays of belief is to actively participate.

It's not remotely the same as a wedding or a funeral. Atheists go to those and can quite easily not participate in the prayers and the hymns.

And to the PP calling the OP a racist: a description of what sub type of religious prayer was involved is not racist. It's simply descriptive to an audience who will be predominantly familiar with the CofE or RC faiths.

Forcing people to actively participate in overt displays of religion generally has the opposite effect. It's her own home FFS, leave the OP in peace, like she left the relatives to pray in peace. She didn't try to stop them, she simply chose to not participate without making a scene.

Even saying Grace: why would I thank a God I don't believe in for the food I got by working hard for the money I have? Fuck that for a game of toy soldiers.

Yes, good point. If your ILs were Wiccan, would you pray to their deity Pan (or whatever they call it), @yhk ? After all, it may be 'meaningless to you', but if it meant a lot to your hosts, would you? What about satan? I find that Christians are the biggest most selfish hypocrites out. They expect non-believers to pray, but if they asked you to pray to Pan or Diana the Goddess or whatever, you'd find that blasphemous and wouldn't participate. Would you? Be honest here!

As I said, their behaviour is irrelevant and anyway all they've done is want to take a few minutes to think about the true meaning of Christmas. Really not a big deal to sit with them and mentally plan next week's meals or whatever whilst that goes on! Would have been better than OP upsetting the DC's grandparents and falling out with her DH.

Plenty of Muslims etc buy their kids gifts etc at Xmas, which kind of shows how far removed it us from Christianity these days.

Yet again, and many people have told you this - Sitting quiet and "mentally plan next weeks meals" was....not....an.....option! They wanted her to fully participate, hold hands, chant, recite - THE WORKS. This is not about a quiet prayer of a minute or so. You haven't read the OP's posts and you do not get it. Sitting quietly was not an option. So your replies are completely irrelevant to the topic. And her ILs behaviour is not 'irrelevant'. It is the entire topic. Especially since they bullied the OP in her own home. It is in fact, solely about their (and her H's) behaviour.

Mumsnet needs to make new rules in the new year for this site. A checkpoint thing (like the robot check or something) where people must check off that they have indeed read ALL of the OP's posts/replies at that point. And, that logic and replies must be based on those posts. We have far too many people replying who are too lazy to take the time to read all OP posts, and who lack basic comprehension and reasoning skills.

Very well said, from another who originally thought we were talking about a simple grace

You were also spot on about the performative aspect, and given these are people who tried to pressure OP into being "more religious" it wouldn't be a surprise if a certain amount of it was done for her "benefit"

By all means observe whatever practices you want, but don't try to impose them on others, and especially not when invited to their homes unless it's been agreed beforehand

For me it is a personal thing about trying to be the better person than others

That might have read better if you'd left off the last two words, 1dayatatime ...

'the true meaning of Christmas.'

But if you're an atheist, your interpretation of 'the true meaning of Christmas' will be different to someone who believes Jesus was the son of 'God'. There is nothing wrong with believing the true meaning of Christmas is time to feast, gather with family and friends and look forward to lengthening days and the first signs of spring, taking time to be thankful for what we have and helping out if we can.

That works for me and many other atheists - if those of faith want to put a different interpretation on the day that's up to them and entirely fine, but sneering at those who who choose not to believe are not really the great advertisement for Christmas they think they are!

My pils were Catholic and held regular house masses. They would have preferred everyone in the house to attend, but it was easy to either decline or join but not actively participate. That's how this sort of thing should be done.

For me the "true meaning of Christmas" is spending time with family and friends and doing a bit of charitable volunteering. Other people's "true meaning" may vary.

Okie dokie 🙏🏾

Good point and you are correct. I apologise.

I'm Pagan, so the 25th is just another day as far as I'm concerned, Yule is important to me, but I celebrate that with my pagan friends.

Even though the season has been stolen by Christians, I still respect their beliefs, at any time of year, not just Christmas.

It doesn't matter now anyway because for the last few years its just been me, and DD.

You might have said it before, but their behaviour is not irrelevant.
Also, it's their interpretation the meaning of christmas, not a universal one.
It is a big deal to listen to prayers if you don't believe inn them.
OP is not unreasonable, the parents and DH are.

You patronising response doesn't add any argument against what I said.

I have no further arguments for you, so if it’s okay with you, I will stop now.

Enjoy the rest of your day!

@Fretfulmum I apologise for replying without catching up on your updates.
As a committed Christian I would have found the chanting and overt worship hard to take.
I might also have commented on the involvement of children. Where is the line drawn between educating and indoctrination? But that is for another thread.
Again I apologise to you and others for my hasty reaction.

It’s not even as though all Christians have a shared view on how to celebrate Christmas.

How on earth did you two end up married?! I honestly can't imagine being THIS different about something as massive as faith.

It’s your house and as you aren’t Christian and your Dh doesn’t normally pray in the house, I’d expect them to respect that. As pp said, you need to sort out what you’re going to do re the dc-religious upbringing/school etc before much longer. My cousin married someone non-religious and he participates in all the religious activities but hasn’t converted, dc are all in a religious school, which just happens to be the best school in the area.

Op has addressed this if you take the time to look at her posts

You're free to stop a discussion at any point, ideally before resorting to be patronising.