Having to do prayers on Christmas Day

[Fretfulmum]

DH is Christian and he and his family are quite religious- goes to church weekly etc. I’m not Christian and I don’t attend church or do anything religious, I’m pretty much an atheist. We hosted DH’s parents and siblings and partners today. His parents wanted to do prayers before Christmas lunch. I told DH I’m not happy about having to do it but just let them get on with it whilst I sat there. In the evening, they wanted to do more. I’d had enough and I left the room without saying anything and let them crack on with it. Half way through the DC (toddlers) realised I wasn’t there and left the room to see where I was so they missed some of it. DH was so angry with me that I didn’t partake as it was a “whole family unit” thing and it disrespected his whole family? Apparently I ruined the day and now he’s sleeping in the spare room. AIBU that’s it my house and if I don’t want to do religious prayers that I sit out and go into another room ?

@SoreAndTired1

"You realise 'Christmas' or Yule, is not an original religious holiday but a pagan one, right?

++++

Please see my previous post below:

"No shit - I think everyone recognises Christmas is linked to previous religious festivals and previously majority held beliefs. It doesn't take a genius to work out when Christmas is right next to the Winter Solstice.

But this doesn't make Christmas less valid as a major Christian event than it makes the previous religious celebrations at this time of year less valid. The point is Christmas is a Christian religious event and has been a Christian festival since the 9th century."

In response to your comment :

"Christmas means different things to different people. It is not solely the province of Christians."

In my previous post I also covered this point:

"I also can sadly see that for the majority of the UK public who are "not into all that religion stuff" that they just want to jump on the back of a Christian festival and use it as some kind of bacchanalian opportunity for increasing their BMI, getting pissed and having family arguments."

Good for you. Christmas Day is great for a good walk as a lot quieter than normal it a shame that the weather was so crappy yesterday.

Nope, stating facts isn't preaching.

I guess saying it's "not normal" might be considered racist but bit of a reach, strange to think describing a common type of prayer in West Africa is racist, whether they do it in Britain or not. She didn't say it was a bad thing. I live in West Africa.

You just talked right past me and what I quoted and then ground your own axe. Want to try again?

I wouldn't be upset about people celebrating their religious festival religiously in my house but I would not be okay at all with any kind of compulsion or emotional blackmail. I'm neopagan but raised Catholic and have no problem joining in Christian worship but it's my decision, no-one else's. I wonder what they think God thinks of compelled prayers.

'Not normal' as in not what might typically be thought of as a prayer in the UK.
It's a well known fact that some West African preachers/worshippers are more vocal, have longer services, sing for longer, pray more fervently out loud etc. I think really saying that it was more typical 'West African' conveys the length/noise/enthusiasm. Five minutes of that is harder to ignore than five minutes of quiet prayer. If that's what floats someone's boat, fair enough, but don't enforce it on others (and also don't be surprised if someone used to vocal prayer finds quiet prayer odd).

A lot of PPs need to read some history- “pagan” festivals are still religious - just different religions.

The Christian festival of Christmas is connected to pre-Christian religious festivals of mid-winter - most obviously Saturnalia, which was a Roman polytheistic celebration of the turning of the year (the Janus face, for example).

It’s also roughly the same time as Hanukkah. Another festival of light in the darkness in mid-winter.

It’s pretty well known that early Christians, persecuted for their beliefs, attached Christian religious festivals to pre-Christian ones.

People who use the word “pagan” without understanding that that term covers a host of pre-Christian religions are being deeply disrespectful to people of the past.

My point about @Fretfulmum ‘s racism is pretty obvious - connecting “West African” style of religious celebration with “not normal” prayers. Pretty offensive. There are many ways to pray.

If the OP doesn’t like it, she doesn’t. Fair enough but she married a man with a deep religious belief. That’s her choice.

But she doesn’t need to be rude or disrespectful about it, especially not to her husband’s family - her DC’s grandparents.

You realise 'Christmas' or Yule, is not an original religious holiday but a pagan one, right? Christmas means different things to different people.

You realise 'Christmas' or Yule, is a religious holiday. Pagan doesn’t mean “no religion.” Quite the reverse. You need to learn a bit of history.

Just ticking off my bingo card.

"Why do you celebrate Christmas if you re an atheist?"
"Christmas Eve s a pagan festival anyway."
"Why should children be taught about religion?"
"Just show some respect-a few prayers won't do you any harm."
"This is a Christian country."

It seems that you are aggressively opposed to Christianity. Did you not know you were marrying into a Christian family? Have they recently sprung it on you?
Is a few minutes of quiet thought and contemplation on Christmas day extreme?

I do know my history. I have studied pagan religions extensively. Pagan also means non-believer, an absence of belief, as well pagan regarding non-Christian but religious (such as Wicca). Pagan has historically, and still is, been used to describe the absence of belief. Or, Atheism.

Both are accurate.

By what measure is not wanting to join in with prayer and quietly leaving beforehand "aggressively opposed to Christianity"?

OMGWHY DON'T PEOPLE READ THE FULL THREAD (or at least OP's posts) 😭

It wasn’t quiet though. There was chanting and OP was expected to hold hands with them.

They need to respect it’s OP’s home and let her leave the room.

What religion are you. You saw you're an atheist but follow some cultural celebrations from a religion.

@JillwithaJ Please read all of the OP's posts, not just the first one, in a thread with several pages. It was a ten minute (2 x 5 minutes) religious performance, and she wasn't allowed to 'sit quiet', she was expected to hold hands, participate, recite and chant. Being quiet and contemplative was not an option. And this, is in OP's own home! That she owned before she met her 'D'H.

Mumsnet really need to do something about this, it is getting way past absolutely ridiculous. On every thread, people reply to the title and don't read the OP or they don't check to see if there are further responses from the OP before replying. It is frustrating and a waste of people's time. There should be a *Read all the OP's responses before posting warning you need to 'check off' as a pre-posting thing.

I bet the OP reminds the DH that it was her hooooooooome daily.

I doubt she does but she should at times like this where he is bullying her to participate in something against her beliefs. You can be damn sure she doesn't expect and bully him to participate in something against his beliefs!

Always good when someone is prodded into reading wikipedia, regurgitate it on a thread undermining their original line of argument.

Yo are entirely reasonable, and your husband is not. His sleeping in the spare room is in fact an attempt to control/punish you for not doing as he/his family expected. It’s abusive.

I am an atheist. In another person’s house I sit quietly during a prayer as I do at weddings/funerals etc. I don’t sing hymns/carols either although I enjoy listening to them especially at Christmas. In fact I think it would be disrespectful to join in rather than not. I respect other people’s faith, but I don’t share it. Joining in an act of worship as a non believer seems to me to almost mock it.

If others asked to pray in my home, I’d probably agree but certainly would remove myself/ask them to move elsewhere. If they did so without asking I’d be unimpressed.

So if you came to my house for one of my religious celebrations, would you pray to my deities?

Another insulting assumption about OP needs on absolutely fuck all.