AIBU to think we NEED to repair society however we can

[Puffalicious]

I occasionally see posts from the local FB page- good to keep up with things happening etc. Recently there have been many posts with people helping each other for Christmas- signposting people looking to donate toys/ food etc, the odd person asking (very mixed area, big city, so wealthy folk mixed with people struggling & everything in between).

Yesterday a post grabbed me, an anonymous post looking for food to tide them over until 29th when paid. Seemed very genuine. They asked for a PM, which I did, along with a few others it seems. It was a young girl, pregnant who had no-one & no food. I usually give to the local food bank- had just Yesterday done a larger, Christmas donation whilst doing my shop- but she seemed outside the system, working with unexpected costs.

We exchanged a few messages & she said she wasn't fussy, eats most things & whatever I thought would be great. She wasn't askimg for anything else. I did a week's shop including items for breakfast, lunch & dinner & some treats, including plenty fresh fruit & veg, milk, bread, washing powder & shampoo. She said she had no plans for Xmas day, so I offered to plate up & drop off.

When I went to drop the food she met me at the door with a joint in her hand. She's 6 months pregnant. Unfortunately her hallway was full of filthy stuff & the stench that hit me was unbearable. We chatted a bit: she had lived there 4 years & had 5 other children- the eldest lives with the father, the other 4 with her mum. She would be at her mum's for Xmas, she 'never misses one', so did have someone cooking for Xmas. The father of her child is in a city hours away- she's just back from visiting & wants to distance herself.

I wished her a Merry Christmas & asked if she needed things for the baby- I gave her details of local places to contact if needed. She says she cannot work - another thing she was untruthful about, but she may have her reasons.

I know I can't save the world, & I'm pleased she has food, but I feel that I won't do this again? I'm not sure why I feel like this, but I think I'll stick to giving to the local food bank. I feel like I'm not judging, maybe I am in my own way?

Where has society got to where a 25 year old will have 6 children, 5 of which are not in her care & the 6th probably under social work watch? How can we fix this? I work in education & see ACES & trauma in the young people who come from such situations. Where are we going wrong? What can we do? She seemed pleasant & perhaps with half a chance she may have had a different path.

I'm wittering now.

YABU- Society is how it is, we can't change people.

YANBU- We need to try to change society for the sake of that unborn baby & many like it.

You did a kind thing, OP. Who knows, maybe you did give her some hope.

It does sound though like a scam to me - I would stick to food banks in future. A smaller amount goes to a wider group of people.

I think if you did it out of empathy for someone going hungry and then saw the joint, it can make you feel naive and taken advantage of. If you did it to follow through on a belief that we should help one another, then we don’t know the woman’s full story and maybe your help stops her going to some one who would take advantage of her. Either way, it was a good thing to do.

Most people on here quite clearly live in a bubble. So much naivety. Coming up with all sorts of diagnoses and backstories for the woman. All these people must still believe in Santa Clause too.

You can't do that on your own! You don't know her. I think you were taken in just as many people on here used to be taken in by posters a few years ago. There would be threads coming up to Christmas where people were blatantly asking for money.

I am very uncomfortable with food banks. I think that in a decent society they shouldn't exist. The government needs to make sure that people don't need to use them. As it is the government realise on ordinary people paying for food for people who are broke. The reason why they are broke needs to be looked at and often it's massive rents, huge electricity, bills, etc.

I also don't think we should have tax credits in the way we do. We need to be paid a higher salary. The government is just enabling businesses to make higher profits.

And that right there is the crux of the issue. By shutting down debate, no matter how much someone like thatcher polarises options, we stunt the growth and development of society.

Just take a look at blm and the trans society who both actively try to shut down views which are not their own.

It’s nature versus nurture.

This thread has garnered some extreme responses on both the left and right of the political spectrum. There is some truth in it all. Intergenerational trauma and the left wing view that it’s not their fault. The Lady Bountiful comment that people can feel good about themselves and the authoritarian comments that people should be controlled and sterilised because they are too mentally inept to make good choices.

Most people will fall in to one camp or the other it’s a disconnect that’s hard to bridge.

There’s no bullshit to cut.

They work - fact

just because you don’t understand their jobs, it doesn’t mean they don’t work.

just because you don’t understand their jobs, it doesn’t mean they don’t work.

Ah, yes@uclpp A pleb like myself couldn't possibly "understand".

Go on then, from your lofty position of superior understanding of the Very Hard Werk done by the royals, explain what it is you think they do that qualifies as actual work.

Except you won't be able to because it boils down to ribbon cutting, with a bit of solemn nodding and parroting a few tired soundbites that your PR team has drafted.

Jesus, it's always the fucking schools!
Schools are there to educate; we are now expected to cover all facets of society on top, it's ridiculous and we are unable to manage it.

It would be totally unmanageable at present, yes, and would take a while to develop. But with funding and support over time…
I say this as someone whose dp grew up in a chaotic home, where school was an oasis of stability and guidance. School summer holidays were a nightmare for him

The issue the OP has I think is that she went above and beyond for an ostensibly misfortunate person only to be met with the type of person society blames for their misfortune. Therein lies the issue, that the woman was not suitably wearisome with hot water bottle in hand.

The reason for invoking the royals in such a thread is to illustrate the other end of the extreme scale. At one end we have people blaming poor people for being poor and at the other we have people celebrating a family who've never heard of a wage slip let alone seen one.

The public attitude to the former group is in part formed by propaganda - that's why every thread about someone on benefits is met with suspicions about the size / model of their iPhone and suggestions that their flatscreen TV indicates they're actually hiding millions in an offshore bank account.

Yup.

It's not about, as a PP has said, that the woman wasn't 'wearisome' enough at all: she genuinely needed food & I'm glad she's now fed.

I think this is the crux: We need adequate housing, at affordable rents, good free child care, well paid jobs for all - just for start

So basically the op has been scammed by a liar.
There is no excuse for having endless children in this country and quite bluntly leaving them to the state/someone else to care for.
The mother of all these children is a con artist. She isn’t working. She is living off the working population, most of which cannot afford to have 6 children and will never get the luxury of squandering their hard earned cash on drugs and sitting on their backside all day.
She has made a choice.
Sounds like her poor mother is helping her.
For many people living off the tax payer is a lifestyle choice.
I don’t know any women who could afford to have 6 children, work full time and be a single parent.
This woman needs a serious talking to about sterilisation. She needs to be told that she has to take responsibility for her own contraception and fertility.

*The reason why they are broke needs to be looked at and often it's massive rents, huge electricity, bills, etc.

I also don't think we should have tax credits in the way we do. We need to be paid a higher salary. The government is just enabling businesses to make higher profits*

I agree that we shouldn't need food banks. I do believe in a living wage for all, absolutely, but unfortunately wages of skilled jobs are not rising at the same time. Dinner staff in schools were striking recently (here in Scotland) for a rise. They deserve it. Ywt the issue comes when DH pointed out that a time served, experienced tradesman would be getting a similar hourly rate in most companies. That's not right. All wages need to rise.

Apologies if you think I'm shutting it down, I just didn't want to start an open debate about Thatcherism on this thread. Let me tell you, I've had many a fierce debate in RL. I'm openly GC, so words have flown frequently over this too.

Completely agree.

@Summerhillsquare..
Really??

I have a large Catholic family and one branch isn't far from ops woman but her family does and always had lots of cash from a family business. But they never valued or where interested in education.

She didn't strike me as a con artist, just hungry. You are right that contraception needs to be discussed sternly with her. I'm not on the sterilisation camp, but I see what you're saying. My sister was in the police - joined at 29- and I saw her go from very Liberal views to advocating sterilisation within a few years.

@Squirrelsnut @Fionaville

It goes deeper than that.
Scratch the surface and you will find lots of undiagnosed sen like autism, dyslexia, adhd and so on.
Kids locked out of our education system with parents who also probably have undiagnosed sen who can't help or understand why or what's wrong with their dc.
Our school system doesn't pick these dc up unfortunately expect for too few exceptions.
So a child from that background has to also cope with being locked out of education, humiliated on low reading levels and their self esteem takes a fall.
It's the low self esteem that then can cause the drug and alcohol issues.

If teachers could have mandatory sen training in primary schools, if Senco actually knew what to do to help, if Ed pys were more freely available and easier to get then that would have a massive impact on society.
. (not getting rid of private school and grammar)

If you work in the environment you work in, surely you know the resources and intensity that goes into parenting support. Baby after baby, after baby after baby, comes along, support goes in and nothing changes

There are sometimes clear lines between people that cant change and people that wont change, but the factors within it are very very complicated and affected by poor MH, low level (or sometimes high level) learning needs, various intrinsic disorders etc.

You cant 'treat' a lot of these issues, they dont change necessarily.

When people say 'support', what they mean is some magical solution to mean that people dont live like this. It doesnt exist Im afraid.

There have always been people like this, and there always will be.

Sometimes its to a level that means the child will be removed by the courts, but it takes a massively high threshold for separation to be agreed by the courts. Courts will do anything, including leaving children in neglectful situations, to avoid separation.

You’re just advocating a welfare-ist approach to dealing with the problem, though. How will that work long term? OP or a food bank or a church can continue to provide food when she needs it. That’ll keep her and her children alive but then what? How does it help her improve her self esteem? Get her off benefits and into work? Get her to use that free contraception? Make better partner choices?

I'm.a secondary school teacher, so I don't know huge amounts about parental support, I just see the results of trauma, ACES, undiagnosed/ untreated ASN & a society near breaking point.

I know it's complex, I do, & I agree that there will always be people like this, but there needs to be some work done to make sure fewer kids end up repeating the cycle.

I'm long in the tooth, 52 with 30 tears in teaching come this summer, & I've come up with no proper solutions.

But we can’t ‘make sure’, and the U.K. is subject to world conditions which at the moment are pretty uniformly bad. There is a cross section of society who can be given all the support in the world and yet they will never stand on their own two feet or learn from previous mistakes. Like I said it goes against society’s belief that everyone is redeemable and there is a solution for every problem but it’s the truth.

From your posts it doesn’t would like she is vulnerable, no more than the typical 25 year old.
The father of her eldest child is parenting them. Another 4 being cared for by her mother. Her mother is cooking for her on Christmas, which she does every year from your post.
She is pregnant, yet again, smoking drugs whilst pregnant.
Her mother sounds like the one who needs help. Plenty of children in this situation would be dumped in the care system. Left vulnerable, unloved, unwanted.
She has chosen to get pregnant and keep this child ( well until it’s taken off her). If a lifestyle choice. There are plenty if jobs out there. Yet they are too much like hard work for someone like this. Why slog your guts out working Christmas Eve and all the unsociable hours when you can stay in your own home.
Quite clearly many people are better off not working, otherwise they would be working in a warehouse for example. You do not need any qualifications to do many jobs. It’s just a choice to refuse to work.
I can’t sympathise with anyone like this.
Take responsibility for your own life.
Many people don’t have supportive parents.

99.99% people who beg for stuff online (i.e Facebook) are just scams.

I worked for many years in the Public Law sector, seeing many children taken into care, families known over generations to Social Services. One couple had just had their 10th child, both parents addicted to alcohol and drugs. All children born damaged. The parents never engaged with social services or the legal system, just went on to produce more damaged babies for the state to care for. How can anyone say these people shouldn't be sterilised.