AIBU to think we NEED to repair society however we can

[Puffalicious]

I occasionally see posts from the local FB page- good to keep up with things happening etc. Recently there have been many posts with people helping each other for Christmas- signposting people looking to donate toys/ food etc, the odd person asking (very mixed area, big city, so wealthy folk mixed with people struggling & everything in between).

Yesterday a post grabbed me, an anonymous post looking for food to tide them over until 29th when paid. Seemed very genuine. They asked for a PM, which I did, along with a few others it seems. It was a young girl, pregnant who had no-one & no food. I usually give to the local food bank- had just Yesterday done a larger, Christmas donation whilst doing my shop- but she seemed outside the system, working with unexpected costs.

We exchanged a few messages & she said she wasn't fussy, eats most things & whatever I thought would be great. She wasn't askimg for anything else. I did a week's shop including items for breakfast, lunch & dinner & some treats, including plenty fresh fruit & veg, milk, bread, washing powder & shampoo. She said she had no plans for Xmas day, so I offered to plate up & drop off.

When I went to drop the food she met me at the door with a joint in her hand. She's 6 months pregnant. Unfortunately her hallway was full of filthy stuff & the stench that hit me was unbearable. We chatted a bit: she had lived there 4 years & had 5 other children- the eldest lives with the father, the other 4 with her mum. She would be at her mum's for Xmas, she 'never misses one', so did have someone cooking for Xmas. The father of her child is in a city hours away- she's just back from visiting & wants to distance herself.

I wished her a Merry Christmas & asked if she needed things for the baby- I gave her details of local places to contact if needed. She says she cannot work - another thing she was untruthful about, but she may have her reasons.

I know I can't save the world, & I'm pleased she has food, but I feel that I won't do this again? I'm not sure why I feel like this, but I think I'll stick to giving to the local food bank. I feel like I'm not judging, maybe I am in my own way?

Where has society got to where a 25 year old will have 6 children, 5 of which are not in her care & the 6th probably under social work watch? How can we fix this? I work in education & see ACES & trauma in the young people who come from such situations. Where are we going wrong? What can we do? She seemed pleasant & perhaps with half a chance she may have had a different path.

I'm wittering now.

YABU- Society is how it is, we can't change people.

YANBU- We need to try to change society for the sake of that unborn baby & many like it.

@beatrix1234 Yes she has used a lot of services but is still clearly troubled, as already stated mental health care is patchy. Maybe if she had been referred after her first child was removed, she wouldn't be up to 6.
Also note I stated that individuals also need to be responsible.
The problem is what else can the state do legally aside from keep removing her children. If she is not working there is no sanction that can be taken. She is already at the bottom. Even if every benefit was removed she can still have sex and fall pregnant.
There will always be feckless people in any society.

as someone who had a pretty traumatic and deprived childhood, plus has ADHD, I feel I can judge her. Who doesn’t know that smoking when pregnant is harmful, let alone smoking weed. She can’t even be bothered to raise her own children and had at best a careless disregard for the life she is carrying. Some people don’t deserve the children they are blessed with. I don’t feel like she needs help, probably sterilisation so she doesn’t inflict suffering on any more lives than her own.

Don't go there with Thatcher. She was the most despicable human being who ripped the life blood from my community when I was growing up. Her politics are not the answer in my opinion. We'll agree to disagree there.

I honestly don't know what your problem is. I'm not engaging, we're clearly of differing opinions.

Most people think IANBU. I'm concerned, not a rubber necker. You know nothing about me.

Have a pleasant Christmas.

And how do you know joint girl has mental health problems? Why assume? She could be thick as a brick and high on weed while using those contraceptives or maybe she didn’t know better, maybe she’s happily watching “strictly come dancing” on her big plasma TV inside her council flat enjoying the OP’s food while her ex’s take care of her children. Maybe she doesn’t give a sh-t and is happier than you and I. Why assume she has mental health problems?

Why sterilise her? Why not sterilise the men who got her pregnant?

OP basically wants to make a political point. A thinly veiled attempt at bashing the state for not giving out more free handouts. Straight out of socialist weekly.

OP added to the problem and now wants a pay on the back for being oh so caring by being taken for a fool. There are so many ways to make a political post without using this poor example of a woman being supported by the taxpayer to have multiple kids, being housed, clothed and fed. But because that taxpayer support doesn’t extend to buying food AND weed, and the woman chose drugs over food for her children, somehow it’s the taxpayers fault.

Batshittery of the highest level.

My view on this is that the one place that could make a difference is schools. Make schools better. Better guidance, fewer pupils in class, lots of support, free food / provisions. Make it a centre for child services.
How to pay for this? Well we can’t trust any government to. But I think getting businesses to sponsor their local schools would be a good start. Make it tax efficient or something to incentivise them.

One key aspect of Thatcher's ideology was the belief that individuals, families, and businesses should take greater responsibility for their own well-being, rather than relying heavily on government assistance.

Yes, sounds great but eventually that doesn’t work either. Been tried many times with not great consequences. Would be amazing if the mega tax dodging rich were brought to account, but even if they were, that only accounts for a tiny fraction of money in reality and unless you have a wholly decent government it won’t be spent well anyway.
People need and want to feel like they can better themselves. To feel like they can earn more money than the next person. It’s what makes most of us human. Take that away and for many, the desire and drive is gone.
People vary greatly. Some are intelligent and some are not. Some are active and ambitious by nature, and some are not. Then the environment you are brought up in adds to that and compounds it. Or even turns you completely if it’s negative enough.
For some, they don’t have morals because they weren't shown how to have any. So having 6 kids and smoking a joint with no money and a filthy house it’s just completely normal.
You won’t ever be able to stop people doing this all the while people are free to have kids whenever they choose.
All you can do is try to get those in charge to help as much of they can by investing in a whole spectrum of education - for both parents and children. Children’s centres were a great start. Shame it’s all been taken away.

the pickle is "People need and want to feel like they can better themselves." everyone can with the rise of the internet anything can be learned etc, it just seems some want, sex, drugs, and rock in roll + tv and thats it etc

Yes but someone said above that the money needs to be shared out more evenly.
that’s a fine and dandy prospect if you are a lower earner or don’t earn. But if you have managed over 20+ years of studying, debt, blood sweat and tears to get a higher wage, then give nearly half away and people still demand you ‘share it more evenly’ then there will be plenty of people who won’t bother anymore, or don’t try in the first place.

Well, of course it was a scam?

How naive are you??

OP we know how to change things. We invest properly in early years provision to break cycles of living this way.
One branch of my family is like this woman. Two parents, one son died an alcoholic, one son got away and married my mum, one daughter had a chaotic life with prison and other stuff. Her children have been murdered, died of alcoholism, had kids taken into care, being in prison. People outside of these families do not realise how difficult it is to escape this way of living. You have to start with the babies and young children so they can live a different way.
And those who think this is about benefits have not a clue. People who live chaotic lifestyles rarely plan that far ahead anyway.

@PurpleWisteria1 we used to have far less inequality in the UK i.e. less difference between the rich and poor than we do now. We were also a country of innovation and small businesses. I see far less of that in evidence these days with too many people just making money out of property rather than product development or manufacturing that builds the UK economy.

I wasn't making a political point. If I wanted to start a political thread I would have. I'm sad that the woman was hungry, that she needed to rely.on strangers to feed her (I wasn't scammed FYI PP- she was hungry & in need, & I for one wouldn't see anyone hungry, but I do think I'll stick to the food bank from now on), and asked what can we do. There's been some good discussion & points made I hadn't thought of, thanks to those.

You must be a Tory voter, which is fine but then get straight to the point instead of accusing the OP of engaging into some sort of socialist agenda on MN, she’s raising a very valid point regarding what is a broken benefits system in this country. I’m from the US and “joint girl”would be most probably homeless had she lived there, the kids taken on custody by the state. Should the government let single mothers die in the street like in the US?

Thanks. I do agree that it is broken..

I’m finding fascinating how you’re being accused of “socialist propaganda!” and also “you’re coming here to bash people on benefits”, all on the same thread . It’s clearly a no win situation 😂

I guess that she if has already got 5 children and is only 25, she's been completely overwhelmed, maybe had her first baby at 15, maybe her husband abandoned her, maybe belongs to a Church that tells her she can't have an abortion, can't refuse her partner sex, must have as many children as God gives her ? We don't know.

My own grandmother was like this. First baby at 17, then another 11. She was lucky that her husband worked hard ( though not in a well paid job and not always able to get work) but she must have been exceptionally capable to cope in desperate circumstances.

I expect the joint was a way to get through the day. She needs help not condemnation. Remember only the first 2 children receive funding so she must have found finances impossible. UC is often withdrawn for weeks at a time for many reasons like change of benefit or missing a meeting through being unable to afford transport etc.( I think 20% had UC withdrawn last year) and housing benefit does not cover the full rent. She would have found getting adequate housing virtually impossible, paying gas/electricity etc impossible. Maybe she was in debt to the UC people because she had to get a loan for the first 5-6 weeks waiting time. Perhaps she has loans from loan sharks who are threatening her.

We need adequate housing, at affordable rents, good free child care, well paid jobs for all - just for start.

Not answering the OP but can I just say how hilarious it is that a poster is going to bat for the royals being hard workers on a thread discussing societal privilege. Peak mumsnet.

If you’re referring to me, I was making the point that they do work. As opposed to not working, which is what a previous poster put.

If you’re referring to me, I was making the point that they dowork. As opposed to not working, which is what a previous poster put.

Oh cut the bullshit!

As if being ferried around to cut a few ribbons, smile and wave at the peasants and have a few staged conversations with suitably chosen povs is ANYTHING like real work.

The royals are not at the beck and call of a boss, sucking it up to ensure they get a paycheck.

What they do isn't really "work", and deep down you know it. What they do is merely part of managing their public image.

They tried that in India in the early 70s.

Lower intelligence/education is associated with low socioeconomic status, poor parenting, ACE’s. It’s very often all interlinked and generational as the OP pointed out. There are of course exceptions, but these issues are deeply ingrained.